[nagdu] Off-leash recall.

Julie J. julielj at neb.rr.com
Sun Mar 16 11:54:19 UTC 2014


Using the clicker in that manner is fine, if you don't also use it to train 
behaviors.  In clicker training the click means the dog has done what you 
wanted and that a reward is forthcoming.  I'm thinking if you use the 
clicker as a sound cue to mean "come" it could also be interpreted by the 
dog that wandering around over here is what she wants and now I'm getting a 
reward for it.  I should do more of that.

I think that could backfire or cause some confusion.

Julie


-----Original Message----- 
From: Raven Tolliver
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 10:15 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Off-leash recall.

Nicole,
My point about the change in voice was that it is usually a deterrent
for the dog. How many times have you seen someone screaming their
dog's name, but their dog does not come to them? How many times have
you seen people call their dog's name in anger, and their dog doesn't
come?
This is why sound cues can be more reliable, because their is no tone
or emotion to create stress in a dog, which could cause them to keep
away from you. A squeaky toy is perfect because like a click, snap of
the finger, or whistle, it is a clear, distinct sound that your dog
will respond to most of the time, if not always.
Also, the goal with the recall is to avoid repeating yourself. There's
no need for counting or even calling several times. Teach the dog to
understand that they need to come the first time they hear the sound,
not after a few times. If a dog only responds after being called more
than once, this is likely because the dog has been inadvertently
trained to do so.
Also, with the off-leash recall I'm describing, I am more focused on
building the recall outside. Yes, start inside. When a dog is sleeping
or comfortable indoors, that's different. Yes, sometimes a dog doesn't
hear you. That's another reason why a sound cue tends to work better
than a verbal cue at a distance.
When building the recall outside, the dog doesn't always see or smell
the food you have. An excited voice or squeaky toy is perfect when a
dog is distracted by their environment. Will a dog know you have food
when he's making a mad dash across the park? Probably not. Will he
recognize your excited voice, the snap of your fingers, or a squeaky
toy? Definitely.
The purpose of the off-leash recall is to get your dog's attention and
coming back to you when they are at a distance. Whether your dog is
across the hall, across the yard, or across an athletic field, you
want to make sure that your dog has learned to respond to your cues
and will return to you without playing games or reluctance.
A girlfriend of mine could not train her guide dog to do a reliable
recall for the life of her. She could call and call this dog in every
voice, and that dog would take forever to respond, or just decide to
play keep away. My friend decided to use my sound cue method. She
can't snap her fingers as loud as I can, but she had the box clicker,
so she uses that. Her guide dog responds to it immediately.

On 3/15/14, Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> I have never heard that about sound cues, but it makes sense; I just would
> not use a squeaky toy. Lexia is not trained to come to the clicker, but 
> she
> probably would anyway because she loves playing click games. I agree about
> changing your voice after a few tries. I think that whether the voice
> becomes more panicky or more firm depends on the dog. If the dog is known
> for being stubborn, then firmer is better. However, when used in the wrong
> contest or with the wrong dog, a firm voice might make your dog run away
> more. Even though it is not explicitly stated as such in the movie, there
> is
> actually a movie that demonstrates this problem. Another method that we
> found worked for our family pet dog was to start counting. After repeating
> the command a few times, she knew that we absolutely meant it if we 
> started
> counting to three. Also, if your dog does not come right away, it might 
> not
> be that he/she did not hear you or is disobeying. Sometimes, in the house,
> I
> have to call Lexia few times, but it is only because she was sleeping or
> really comfortable. If she has been laying down for a while and I am in a
> bit of a hurry, I will actually get her attention a minute or two before
> calling her to give her a chance to stretch and get her act together.
> As far as making yourself more important than everything else, food tends
> to
> do the trick for that, which is actually how we keep Lexia focused on
> staying in a particular area when she runs off leash.
>
> Nicole and Lexia who loves to run for food
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 10:18 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Off-leash recall.
>
> Deanna,
> I personally prefer sound cues over verbal cues for a recall. As with the
> clicker in dog training, a whistle or squeak toy are clear, consistent,
> quick sounds. There's no tone, inflection, or emotion associated. My 
> friend
> uses her clicker to call her dogs to her; 2 quick clicks and they're at 
> her
> side. I snap my fingers twice without a beat in between; it brings the
> Golden Guy to me instantaneously.
> What I've learned from teaching other people to train a reliable recall is
> that when the dog doesn't come, the person's voice changes.
> They might not mean it or intend for it to, but after calling the dog's
> name
> a third time, I notice that the voice either goes up in pitch and gets a
> bit
> panicky, or it acquires a stern, get-your-butt-over-here! tone.
> A couple tips for working on recall:
> Always reward your dog for coming to you. Never punish him, even if you 
> had
> to call him 7 times.
> Start working on recalls in-house. Just randomly call your dog's name in a
> sweet voice. Don't even say "come." When he comes to you, just reward him
> or
> play with him. Let him know that coming when you call does not always mean
> that it's business time.
> When you work on recall outside, call him to you several times while
> playing
> in the yard, then allow him to resume playing. Again, don't make your dog
> think that each time he comes when called, the fun times are over.
> Also, remember that a recall is sometimes very hard to teach.
> Especially when a dog is distracted or engaged with his environment, you
> have to somehow make yourself more excited than everything else going on.
> Sound cues really come in handy here, because they are clear, distinct,
> consistent, and dog's tend to respond to them without reluctance.
> Good luck.
>
> On 3/14/14, Steven Johnson <blinddog3 at charter.net> wrote:
>> Deanna, I have found that with all of my labs, who seemed to
>> mysteriously get lost in my yard, the simple command of, come, I need
>> your help, always works.  Of course voice inflection helps, but not in
>> an angry way, but enough to let them know you really need their help.
>> All 4 of my black labs have come up to me after running like wild
>> dogs, put their head down so I can grab their collar and  then I have
>> them lead me up the deck to the door with lots of praise of course.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deanna
>> Lewis
>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 10:05 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> (nagdu at nfbnet.org)
>> Subject: [nagdu] Off-leash recall.
>>
>> Hi,
>> So all the talk about fenced in yards and off-leash recall got me
>> thinking that I really should be working on improving my dog's
>> off-leash recall. He is not bad, but sometimes, he gets sniffy and is
>> really stubborn and doesn't want to come back to me. His obedience is
>> good, but when he gets outside and more than 10 feet away, he likes to
>> poke around and I have to call his name several times.
>> So, what are some good techniques for re-teaching a dog off leash recall?
>> Any tips and tricks?
>> I know some of you mentioned whistles, is there a specific type to
>> use, or will any kind do?
>> Food? Clicker? Etc?
>> Thank you.
>> Deanna and Pascal
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>
>
> --
> Raven
>
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-- 
Raven

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