[nagdu] Off-leash recall.

Sun Mar 16 12:35:48 UTC 2014

Hi Julie,
Yes, I should have made that distinction. My friend definitely doesn't
use the clicker to train behaviors. However, her guide dog is clicker
trained. But she does 2 consecutive clicks for the recall, as opposed
to the single click.
I was using her as an example of how sound cues can be more reliable.
I didn't intend to highlight or recommend using the clicker as a sound
cue.
Personally, I would advise doing something like clicking your tongue,
snapping fingers, whistling, or using a whistle or squeak toy. A sharp
or high-pitched sound that will travel is a good one.

On 3/16/14, Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
> Using the clicker in that manner is fine, if you don't also use it to train
>
> behaviors.  In clicker training the click means the dog has done what you
> wanted and that a reward is forthcoming.  I'm thinking if you use the
> clicker as a sound cue to mean "come" it could also be interpreted by the
> dog that wandering around over here is what she wants and now I'm getting a
>
> reward for it.  I should do more of that.
>
> I think that could backfire or cause some confusion.
>
> Julie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raven Tolliver
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 10:15 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Off-leash recall.
>
> Nicole,
> My point about the change in voice was that it is usually a deterrent
> for the dog. How many times have you seen someone screaming their
> dog's name, but their dog does not come to them? How many times have
> you seen people call their dog's name in anger, and their dog doesn't
> come?
> This is why sound cues can be more reliable, because their is no tone
> or emotion to create stress in a dog, which could cause them to keep
> away from you. A squeaky toy is perfect because like a click, snap of
> the finger, or whistle, it is a clear, distinct sound that your dog
> will respond to most of the time, if not always.
> Also, the goal with the recall is to avoid repeating yourself. There's
> no need for counting or even calling several times. Teach the dog to
> understand that they need to come the first time they hear the sound,
> not after a few times. If a dog only responds after being called more
> than once, this is likely because the dog has been inadvertently
> trained to do so.
> Also, with the off-leash recall I'm describing, I am more focused on
> building the recall outside. Yes, start inside. When a dog is sleeping
> or comfortable indoors, that's different. Yes, sometimes a dog doesn't
> hear you. That's another reason why a sound cue tends to work better
> than a verbal cue at a distance.
> When building the recall outside, the dog doesn't always see or smell
> the food you have. An excited voice or squeaky toy is perfect when a
> dog is distracted by their environment. Will a dog know you have food
> when he's making a mad dash across the park? Probably not. Will he
> recognize your excited voice, the snap of your fingers, or a squeaky
> toy? Definitely.
> The purpose of the off-leash recall is to get your dog's attention and
> coming back to you when they are at a distance. Whether your dog is
> across the hall, across the yard, or across an athletic field, you
> want to make sure that your dog has learned to respond to your cues
> and will return to you without playing games or reluctance.
> A girlfriend of mine could not train her guide dog to do a reliable
> recall for the life of her. She could call and call this dog in every
> voice, and that dog would take forever to respond, or just decide to
> play keep away. My friend decided to use my sound cue method. She
> can't snap her fingers as loud as I can, but she had the box clicker,
> so she uses that. Her guide dog responds to it immediately.
>
> On 3/15/14, Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> I have never heard that about sound cues, but it makes sense; I just
>> would
>> not use a squeaky toy. Lexia is not trained to come to the clicker, but
>> she
>> probably would anyway because she loves playing click games. I agree
>> about
>> changing your voice after a few tries. I think that whether the voice
>> becomes more panicky or more firm depends on the dog. If the dog is known
>> for being stubborn, then firmer is better. However, when used in the
>> wrong
>> contest or with the wrong dog, a firm voice might make your dog run away
>> more. Even though it is not explicitly stated as such in the movie, there
>> is
>> actually a movie that demonstrates this problem. Another method that we
>> found worked for our family pet dog was to start counting. After
>> repeating
>> the command a few times, she knew that we absolutely meant it if we
>> started
>> counting to three. Also, if your dog does not come right away, it might
>> not
>> be that he/she did not hear you or is disobeying. Sometimes, in the
>> house,
>> I
>> have to call Lexia few times, but it is only because she was sleeping or
>> really comfortable. If she has been laying down for a while and I am in a
>> bit of a hurry, I will actually get her attention a minute or two before
>> calling her to give her a chance to stretch and get her act together.
>> As far as making yourself more important than everything else, food tends
>> to
>> do the trick for that, which is actually how we keep Lexia focused on
>> staying in a particular area when she runs off leash.
>>
>> Nicole and Lexia who loves to run for food
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
>> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 10:18 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Off-leash recall.
>>
>> Deanna,
>> I personally prefer sound cues over verbal cues for a recall. As with the
>> clicker in dog training, a whistle or squeak toy are clear, consistent,
>> quick sounds. There's no tone, inflection, or emotion associated. My
>> friend
>> uses her clicker to call her dogs to her; 2 quick clicks and they're at
>> her
>> side. I snap my fingers twice without a beat in between; it brings the
>> Golden Guy to me instantaneously.
>> What I've learned from teaching other people to train a reliable recall
>> is
>> that when the dog doesn't come, the person's voice changes.
>> They might not mean it or intend for it to, but after calling the dog's
>> name
>> a third time, I notice that the voice either goes up in pitch and gets a
>> bit
>> panicky, or it acquires a stern, get-your-butt-over-here! tone.
>> A couple tips for working on recall:
>> Always reward your dog for coming to you. Never punish him, even if you
>> had
>> to call him 7 times.
>> Start working on recalls in-house. Just randomly call your dog's name in
>> a
>> sweet voice. Don't even say "come." When he comes to you, just reward him
>> or
>> play with him. Let him know that coming when you call does not always
>> mean
>> that it's business time.
>> When you work on recall outside, call him to you several times while
>> playing
>> in the yard, then allow him to resume playing. Again, don't make your dog
>> think that each time he comes when called, the fun times are over.
>> Also, remember that a recall is sometimes very hard to teach.
>> Especially when a dog is distracted or engaged with his environment, you
>> have to somehow make yourself more excited than everything else going on.
>> Sound cues really come in handy here, because they are clear, distinct,
>> consistent, and dog's tend to respond to them without reluctance.
>> Good luck.
>>
>> On 3/14/14, Steven Johnson <blinddog3 at charter.net> wrote:
>>> Deanna, I have found that with all of my labs, who seemed to
>>> mysteriously get lost in my yard, the simple command of, come, I need
>>> your help, always works.  Of course voice inflection helps, but not in
>>> an angry way, but enough to let them know you really need their help.
>>> All 4 of my black labs have come up to me after running like wild
>>> dogs, put their head down so I can grab their collar and  then I have
>>> them lead me up the deck to the door with lots of praise of course.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deanna
>>> Lewis
>>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 10:05 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> (nagdu at nfbnet.org)
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Off-leash recall.
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> So all the talk about fenced in yards and off-leash recall got me
>>> thinking that I really should be working on improving my dog's
>>> off-leash recall. He is not bad, but sometimes, he gets sniffy and is
>>> really stubborn and doesn't want to come back to me. His obedience is
>>> good, but when he gets outside and more than 10 feet away, he likes to
>>> poke around and I have to call his name several times.
>>> So, what are some good techniques for re-teaching a dog off leash
>>> recall?
>>> Any tips and tricks?
>>> I know some of you mentioned whistles, is there a specific type to
>>> use, or will any kind do?
>>> Food? Clicker? Etc?
>>> Thank you.
>>> Deanna and Pascal
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Raven
>>
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>
>
> --
> Raven
>
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-- 
Raven