[nagdu] wearing a harness.

Mon Nov 10 17:47:14 UTC 2014

I am going to stick my nose in here...
     I have used leash guiding in two very specific situations in
public. My dog was still wearing his harness, but it was more
practical for me to use the leash due to narrow space and hand
constraints. I would never, ever use it to cross streets, nor would I
use it in a crowded area. My dog is just not that disciplined.
     Now, I do not wish to bash one training method over another and
believe that Viviana's comment was a little overdramatic. I'm not
saying that some owners don't overuse the treats, but suggesting that
an entire conference full of people would be doing such is a bit much.
     I do believe that our dogs should wear their harnesses to cut
down on confusion. I know that we have a right to not have the dog in
harness, but, at least for now when there are so many problems with
fake service animals, it is easier and less of a hastle to put a
harness on the dog.
Let the flaming begin...
Aleeha and Dallas, who wears his harness in public

On 11/10/14, The Pawpower Pack via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Vivianna,
> My point is, if you don't want to do it, don't. There is actually   program
> as Buddy said, which teaches this skill. Many owner trainers I know use it.
> I personally do not for anything longer than what I said before. But that's
> my personal choice. Also my dog does mobility work— brace, counterbalance,
> and momentum work, and so she uses a harness about 99% of the time.
> My point is, that you have the right to decide what works er you, other
> people have the right to decide what works for them, and I'm not seeing
> anything from anyone who uses leash guiding to say everyone should do it,
> just that the people in question do it.  And that's their right.
>
> As for the dogs at a conference all on a leash only and eating treats
> nonstop, no, I don't think it's in any way acccomrate. People may or may not
> use treats. That's the person's personal choice. My dog was trained with a
> clicker and treats but I don't carry it around unless we're teaching a new
> behavior, or unless I want to reinforce a particular behavior. Which is how
> people use training collars— to reinforce behaviors and for training.
>
>  Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 10, 2014, at 11:24 AM, Vivianna via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> um, hold on a second here.  let me just jump up and defend myself here.
>> yes, someone on here did say that they were using their dog without a
>> harness in public.  so, i gave my opinion.
>> my opinion is just as valid as hers is.  why don’t you get all over her
>> case as well as mine then?
>> and, yes, i did over exagerate, but, is what i said really that far from
>> the truth out there?  no, it’s not.
>> am i being judgmental of a certain behavior?  yes, i am but, is that not
>> what folks are doing on here every day?  yes, it is.
>> i am just more blunt about it.  lol.
>> the reason that i brought it up at all was because, after, said person
>> declared that they used their dog on a leash, another person started
>> asking just how to do such a thing.  it’s my opinion that this way of
>> trying to use a guide dog is not only considerably less safe but, that,
>> the public will perceive the dog in a different manner than a guide dog in
>> harness.
>> now, what’s wrong with that?
>> if the schools, and, even owner trainers, i might add, thought that leash
>> guiding was so great then, why are we not all doing it.
>> you would be surprised just how many people read something, from someone
>> who they do not know, on the internet and then proceed to try it at home.
>> my goal, and, i think i am accomplishing it here, is to make folks stop
>> and think before going out to some university or whatever and leave their
>> harness at home.
>>
>> Vivianna
>> who’s opinions are just as valid as yours are.
>>
>>> On Nov 10, 2014, at 11:06 AM, Howard J. Levine via nagdu
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> There is nothing wrong in making comments about other schools and how
>>> thay
>>> train. I do think treats used to often in training is not a good thing.
>>> Guide dogs should work for love and praise not food. I don't want to put
>>> treats in my dogs mouth and then need to deal with other people such as
>>> giving money or other things.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The Pawpower
>>> Pack
>>> via nagdu
>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 11:18 AM
>>> To: Cindy Ray; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] wearing a harness.
>>>
>>> Viviana,
>>> This is a bit of an over exaduration.  Firstly, a dog can leash guide but
>>> I'm not seeing people writing about taking their dogs not in gear.
>>> I use leash guiding for short distances, like when I'm staying in a hotel
>>> and I take my dog out to relieve.  I may use leash guiding also to go
>>> visit
>>> a friend in their room at that same hotel.  I might use it if I live in a
>>> dorm or an apartment to get the mail.  These are mainly the times people
>>> take their dogs on a lead.
>>> Also this thread had nothing to do with the use of treats. I am aware
>>> that
>>> this is a practice of which you do not approve, but you are not the judge
>>> here and I would once again, ask you to be respectful of others training
>>> choices.  Just because you have had a bad experience with a team who used
>>> clicker training or used treats does not mean you have the right to mock
>>> people who use this method.  People will disagree, I personally would not
>>> use a training collar on my dog. This is my choice, but I respect that
>>> other
>>> people disagree and it is their right to do so, and I have no right to
>>> mock
>>> that whole school of training dogs in its entirity just because I may
>>> have
>>> _have a bad experience were people who overcorrect or are not an
>>> effective
>>> team with their dog.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
>>> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
>>> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Nov 10, 2014, at 7:53 AM, Cindy Ray via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Viviana, I agree with you that the dogs should wear their harnesses when
>>>> they are guiding in public places. I think your vision there is a little
>>> on
>>>> the dramatic side. Not sure that most of these people are handing out
>>> treats
>>>> to their pets while leash guiding. But I do think that even if we are
>>>> allowed to take our guide without harness, it is better clarification
>>>> for
>>>> the rest of the public and that it is the more respectful thing to do
>>>> with
>>>> respect to the law. We don't have to show IDs, we don't have to have the
>>> dog
>>>> in harness, and we don't have to say much about what the dog does. I do
>>>> think though that if we were to get into a habit of taking the dog
>>>> around
>>>> just in leash, since so many people are bent on having their pets with
>>> them,
>>>> and since sometimes it may be a little hard anyway to determine who is a
>>> pet
>>>> and who is a service dog, the time will come when we will have to have
>>>> the
>>>> dogs in their harness/gear and will have to show id. Of course the time
>>> may
>>>> come when you can just take your pet anywhere, too, so the opposite
>>>> could
>>>> happen.
>>>>
>>>> Cindy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vivianna via
>>>> nagdu
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 7:47 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] wearing a harness.
>>>>
>>>> OK, it may not be the law that a guide dog has to wear a harness
>>>> however,
>>> i
>>>> respectfully strongly disagree that folks should just take their dogs
>>> around
>>>> on a leash in public.
>>>> i am a college graduate myself and spent 4 years on a university campus
>>>> working my dog, in harness.  it's a huge place with, traffic, busses,
>>>> stairs, ramps, bicycles, paths going off in all directions, etc.  i
>>>> often
>>>> had to walk a mile between classes and, sometimes had to take a bus to
>>>> the
>>>> next class.
>>>> all of us on here know that, the public recognizes a guide dog by the
>>>> harness.
>>>> we are encountering more and more folks taking their pets around and
>>> saying
>>>> that they are service dogs.
>>>> allowing your dog to act like a pet during guide work is, IMO, not
>>>> helping
>>>> those of us who use our dogs as guides.
>>>> guiding on a leash, while possible, is not the recommended way to work a
>>>> guide dog.  just ask any school.
>>>> you can most definitely not feel the movements of the dog nearly as well
>>> as
>>>> in a harness.
>>>> man, all i can envision is a bunch of folks deciding that harnessing up
>>>> is
>>>> not necessary.  next thing, i will be in a store or restaurant, or, even
>>> at
>>>> a national convention with a bunch of dogs, guides or not, on leashes,
>>> their
>>>> owners feeding them treats and never giving them a correction for
>>> anything.
>>>> yuck!
>>>>
>>>> i am proud to be a woman with a harnessed up guide at my side; Vivianna
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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-- 
Aleeha Dudley and Seeing Eye Yellow Labrador Dallas
Vice President, Ohio Association of Blind Students
Email: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com
Follow me on Twitter at @blindcowgirl199

The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears.
- Arabian Proverb