[nagdu] Expectations of service dogs WAS How to Take Your PetEverywhere

Thu Oct 16 12:06:45 UTC 2014

			I agree with Tracey and Viviana. 
Viviana, do you know for sure that the guy you speak of was at one time a
good handler? Lots of people can get through training when they are
surrounded by people all doing the same thing. Once he was home and was no
longer with a peer group, things could have fallen apart. 
If he was at one time a good handler and now isn't, maybe there is more
going on, physically or intellectually? Maybe he doesn't enjoy working with
a dog the way he thought he would or thinks he should? All this isn't to
excuse his behavior of course. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
via nagdu
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 2:47 PM
To: Vivianna; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Expectations of service dogs WAS How to Take Your
PetEverywhere

I agree with Vivianna.  I love dogs, but I don't want one pestering me while
I'm eating  my dinner.  I wonder what would have happened if the woman's dog
had just gone off with Vivianna?  Would the woman have realized that she has
to keep hold of her dog so it won't be taken by some stranger? Or would she
have just thought Vivianna was a meanie for walking off with it, and taken
no responsibility?
Tracy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vivianna via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Expectations of service dogs WAS How to Take Your
PetEverywhere

well, in my example of this man and his dog at the restaurant.  the dog
never lay down, not even once.  during the entire meal it was up, walking
around, just standing under the table, sniffing , eating stuff off the
floor, wandering into the aisle several times to seek attention from others.
this is not a little oops, this is definitely a dog that was not made to
behave.
it's my opinion, right or wrong, that guide dogs should be well behaved.  as
the article states, that dog should be lying down next to the handler, not
bothering folks or making a pest of itself.
frankly, i don't want dogs bothering me when i am out for dinner.
we are always talking about our rights as guide dog users to go anywhere
with our dogs.  but, what about the public's rights to refuse us if the dog
is out of control, misbehaved, badly groomed to the point of smelling or
having sores, etc.
hey, none of our dogs are perfect but, i would venture to say that they are
notso totally misbehaved as this man's dog was either.
and, this is just one single example of the things i have seen recently.
another time, i was at a wine bar with a couple friends, this one woman has
a guide dog, she just lets it wander around.  she didn't even have ahold of
the leash.  that dog came over to me, i motioned with my hand for it to lay
down, it did.  i think the poor thing wanted direction.  then, when i got up
to leave, i opened the door and went outside, only to find, that, that dog
had somehow followed me all the way outside.
i had to take it back in to her.
now, should they be able to ask her to take that dog out of there?  in my
opinion, yes.
and, it's my opinion that, if some of these folks had a couple situations
where they were asked to take the dog out of there, that, they may, just
maybe, make their dogs behave better.

Vivianna

On Oct 15, 2014, at 11:28 AM, Daryl Marie via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> Viviana,
> Your question, and Dan's response to it, made me think.
>
> I understand basic doggie etiquette - don't go sniffing, lay down 
> nicely under the table, don't bark, growl, whine, etc... - but Dan's 
> comment about expectation caused me to think of the gray areas, or 
> moments of misjudgment.
>
> For example: Yesterday jenny did nearly flawless guide work... except 
> when we had to walk up a flight of stairs where someone had spilled
something.
> She tried to sniff/eat it, I told her to keep her nose up, and off we 
> went.
>
> By Vivianna's description (correct me if I'm wrong here), Jenny is not 
> behaving.  Is redirecting moments of misjudgment considered being too 
> hard on one's dog?  Is any moment of misjudgment a misbehavior?
>
> I do not think of my dog as a robot, but a living, breathing creature 
> that has quirks, triggers, and desires, just like I do.  That does not 
> mean I tolerate outright disobedience, but I do try and understand why 
> she is doing XYZ.
>
> I am honestly curious.
>
> Daryl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vivianna via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 00:48:43 -0600 (MDT)
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How to Take Your Pet Everywhere
>
> Hi all.
> so, i have a question for you all.
> what if i am somewhere and am with another blind person with a dog 
> but, they are allowing their dog to misbehave?
> here is an example; A couple months ago i met a friend for dinner, she 
> brought a friend of hers.  we all 3 had guide dogs.
> both of ours are well behaved in public, however, the friend's dog was 
> not.  the dog was standing the entire time, wandering around, out in 
> the aisle between the tables, seeking attention, sniffing and eating 
> things off the floor etc.
> i said to the man; "your dog is up."
> his answer; "oh, that's ok.  he's fine."
> me; "do you ever make him lay down?"
> him; "no, he's fine."
> now, techniqually, they could ask him to leave, even though that dog 
> had a harness on.
> i have seen this sort of thing very often.  dogs up, wandering around 
> at the end of the leash, putting their heads in my lap, licking me, 
> etc, and, the handlers do nothing.  IMO, this happens way to often and 
> makes things more difficult for those of us who actually use our dogs 
> to guide us around and whose dogs are well behaved.
> i almost wish that these folks would be tossed out of a few places.  
> maybe that would help them learn that they must control their dogs.
> i am certain that, at the schools that they went to, they were not 
> allowed to let the dogs behave that way.
> any suggestions?
>
> Vivianna
>
>
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