[nagdu] Expectations of service dogs WAS How to Take Your PetEverywhere

Fri Oct 17 03:29:13 UTC 2014

I think that what Vivianna  and what Daryl are talking about are two
different things. So how do you tell one from the other? I think that there
are three things to consider
1. Expectations: Does the dog know what is expected of him/her? Some dogs
know what is expected of them and will do it automatically, such as laying
down when their handlers sit down. Some other dogs know what is expected of
them but choose to misbehave, such as scavenging. Then there are dogs that
do not know what is expected of them, and it is the responsibility of the
handlers to give the directions. For example, whenever a handler sits down,
the dog should be told to lay down if the dog does not do it automatically.
2. Action: Does the handler do anything about it? In the two examples that
Vivianna gave, the handler did not do anything whereas Daryl did do
something. Regardless of whether a dog is misbehaving on purpose, a dog does
not know what is expected, or whatever else, it is the responsibility of the
handler to notice that there is a problem and then do something about it.
3. Response: Does the dog respond to the command, correction, redirection,
or what-have-you to try to remedy the problem? If not, then there is still a
problem. As the old saying goes, a is not for effort. In the second example
given by Vivianna, the dog did respond; however, this does not count as it
was not the handler who took action. Jenny did respond to Daryl.

What would I have done in each of these situations? For Daryl, I would have
done the same thing or something very similar. As for the dog who was
wandering around during dinner, I think that there are a couple of different
options. First, if it really bothers you and you would rather not go with
that person than go with that person and be bothered by the dog, then don't
go, and make this clear to them. If the person insists that you come, then
go, but, if the dog starts misbehaving, then just get up and leave or move
to another table; this should get the message across. If you don't know the
person that well and are not concerned about your friendship, then you could
tell the restaurant staff during or after the incident that they have the
right to ask that the person remove the dog.
As for the incident with the dog not knowing what to do, what I would have
done depends on a lot of things. You could contact the school and tell them
what happened. If you are comfortable talking to the person, you could try
that. Sometimes, when people get new dogs, they need a little reminding that
the new dog does not know everything that the old dog knew and need a little
extra guidance. Finally, if you knew that this was a recurring issue, you
could have done something more drastic like take the dog with you. If the
lady really cared about her dog, she would have gone looking for it.
JMHO, if you are going to have a guide dog, you have to be responsible for
it. You cannot just put a dog down and leave it alone. If the dog does not
know what to do or decides to not do what it is supposed to do, then you
have a problem.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vivianna via
nagdu
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 11:19 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Expectations of service dogs WAS How to Take Your
PetEverywhere

well, in my example of this man and his dog at the restaurant.  the dog
never lay down, not even once.  during the entire meal it was up, walking
around, just standing under the table, sniffing , eating stuff off the
floor, wandering into the aisle several times to seek attention from others.
this is not a little oops, this is definitely a dog that was not made to
behave.
it's my opinion, right or wrong, that guide dogs should be well behaved.  as
the article states, that dog should be lying down next to the handler, not
bothering folks or making a pest of itself.
frankly, i don't want dogs bothering me when i am out for dinner.
we are always talking about our rights as guide dog users to go anywhere
with our dogs.  but, what about the public's rights to refuse us if the dog
is out of control, misbehaved, badly groomed to the point of smelling or
having sores, etc.
hey, none of our dogs are perfect but, i would venture to say that they are
notso totally misbehaved as this man's dog was either.
and, this is just one single example of the things i have seen recently.
another time, i was at a wine bar with a couple friends, this one woman has
a guide dog, she just lets it wander around.  she didn't even have ahold of
the leash.  that dog came over to me, i motioned with my hand for it to lay
down, it did.  i think the poor thing wanted direction.  then, when i got up
to leave, i opened the door and went outside, only to find, that, that dog
had somehow followed me all the way outside.
i had to take it back in to her.
now, should they be able to ask her to take that dog out of there?  in my
opinion, yes.
and, it's my opinion that, if some of these folks had a couple situations
where they were asked to take the dog out of there, that, they may, just
maybe, make their dogs behave better.

Vivianna

On Oct 15, 2014, at 11:28 AM, Daryl Marie via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> Viviana,
> Your question, and Dan's response to it, made me think.
> 
> I understand basic doggie etiquette - don't go sniffing, lay down nicely
under the table, don't bark, growl, whine, etc... - but Dan's comment about
expectation caused me to think of the gray areas, or moments of misjudgment.
> 
> For example: Yesterday jenny did nearly flawless guide work... except when
we had to walk up a flight of stairs where someone had spilled something.
She tried to sniff/eat it, I told her to keep her nose up, and off we went.
> 
> By Vivianna's description (correct me if I'm wrong here), Jenny is not
behaving.  Is redirecting moments of misjudgment considered being too hard
on one's dog?  Is any moment of misjudgment a misbehavior?
> 
> I do not think of my dog as a robot, but a living, breathing creature that
has quirks, triggers, and desires, just like I do.  That does not mean I
tolerate outright disobedience, but I do try and understand why she is doing
XYZ.
> 
> I am honestly curious.
> 
> Daryl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vivianna via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 00:48:43 -0600 (MDT)
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] How to Take Your Pet Everywhere
> 
> Hi all.
> so, i have a question for you all.
> what if i am somewhere and am with another blind person with a dog but,
they are allowing their dog to misbehave?
> here is an example; A couple months ago i met a friend for dinner, she
brought a friend of hers.  we all 3 had guide dogs.
> both of ours are well behaved in public, however, the friend's dog was
not.  the dog was standing the entire time, wandering around, out in the
aisle between the tables, seeking attention, sniffing and eating things off
the floor etc.
> i said to the man; "your dog is up."
> his answer; "oh, that's ok.  he's fine."
> me; "do you ever make him lay down?"
> him; "no, he's fine."
> now, techniqually, they could ask him to leave, even though that dog had a
harness on.  
> i have seen this sort of thing very often.  dogs up, wandering around at
the end of the leash, putting their heads in my lap, licking me, etc, and,
the handlers do nothing.  IMO, this happens way to often and makes things
more difficult for those of us who actually use our dogs to guide us around
and whose dogs are well behaved.
> i almost wish that these folks would be tossed out of a few places.  maybe
that would help them learn that they must control their dogs.
> i am certain that, at the schools that they went to, they were not allowed
to let the dogs behave that way.
> any suggestions?
> 
> Vivianna
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/crazymusician%40sha
> w.ca
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/irishana%40gmail.co
> m

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.co
m