[nagdu] discrimination for service pups in training./my little rant

Mon Sep 8 22:32:10 UTC 2014

Hi Jessica, 
First thing is, I'd take your pup on a day when you don't have class. Do this a few times, each time building upon the last.  It really depends on your pup's maturity level.   

 Rox and the kitchen Bitches: 
Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
Pawpower4me at gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 8, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Jessica Roberts via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I had actually looked into everything before we got the pups, but then
> this lady came out at me today. I had asked her before and it was
> okay.
> I've made arrangements for someoen to come let pups out the 2 days a
> week we're gone longer than they can hold there bladders for now.
> What age do you guys think is appropriate to take them to the college
> say, for an hour and a half class or so?
> Its not a showing off thing at all, but that I want to do this right
> and I want to expose the pups to as much as I can.
> Jessica
> 
>> On 9/8/14, Valerie Gibson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I'm in agreement here.  While I do believe there are some places your puppy
>> should go to get acustomed to the world, most of those places are outside.
>> For example, I took Zion onto the train when he was around 10 weeks.  owever
>> we never went on the train if  he showed any signs of fear.  Sometimes, we'd
>> just sit near the train, and he would watch people getting on and off of the
>> train.  We went into places like walmart together as well when he was a
>> young pup.  However I always made sure that the trips were short enough to
>> provide a potty break before and after.  Because he was still very young, I
>> was always willing to just allow him to sleep in his kennel while i went out
>> to run around.
>> 
>> If your dog is not potty trained, I'm assuming it's around 3 months.  It's
>> good that you're thinking about socialization, but taking the pup to a
>> school is too much.  Zion goes to school with me now, and there are times
>> when he gets restless.  That is due to the fact that he's ten months old and
>> still a puppy, but slowly, he's getting better at calming down.  Another
>> thing you want to consider is that if you take the dog to a college campus,
>> everyone's going to want to pet the dog.  This is good for the puppy, but he
>> might come to associate the college campus with play and free pets.  I
>> recommend taking him to campus on a day where you don't have class and can
>> stroll aroud. It's what I did when Zion was four months.
>> I don't mean to sound harsh, but it seems to me that you just want to show
>> off your new puppy. Him/her being a service dog in training offers you the
>> perk of being able to take it around to places.
>> 
>> There's nothing wrong with wanting to do this, but there's a time and place
>> to do it right now.  On a time where you don't necessarily get free time is
>> not one.
>> 
>> Truly I understand your eagerness to show off your friend.  There were times
>> I had to remind myself that Zion was still X months old and wasn't ready for
>> something.  It didn't help that he was so big.
>> 
>> My second pet peeve about this is: Why are you training a dog if you don't
>> have the time?  Or, why not clear it with your disability center before you
>> got puppy, that way you'd know, okay, it may not be able to come with me to
>> class so I need to plan my class schedule around it's schedule, or make
>> arangements for it's care while I am away?
>> 
>> You don't need to answer these on list or even in an email to me.  Part of
>> this is just my venting.
>> 
>> I get that everyone has their own circumstances, but the dog didn't ask to
>> be placed in your life, especially if it's a puppy you're owner training.
>> 
>> okay, now this is just my venting, not to/about anyone in particular.
>> 
>> This goes for pets too. If you can't take care of your dog, at any time, for
>> any reason, make arrangements for it's care, wether that's for a dog walker
>> to come by, taking it to a daycare, leaving it with a friend, etc.  If you
>> can't do that, or can't afford it, you don't need to be training a dog.
>> 
>> If something comes up, after you've got the puppy, and it's nothing that you
>> could have prevented before you got the puppy, that's a little different.
>> 
>> As a dog trainer you need to understand life stages of dogs, what hurtles
>> you'll need to jump at what stage, and various ways to overcome those
>> hurtles.  For example, if your dog is chewing everything in sight and it's 5
>> months old, you should know that it's teeth, and this shall last roughly
>> until the dogs 7 months old.  If your dog, who once was an obedient puppy,
>> suddenly decides it's not going to listen to anything yo say, and it's a
>> year old, that'a adolescence and understand that you might have to start
>> back at square one, but that this too shall pass.  You should understand
>> breed in that not all dogs train or work the same.  What was your dog
>> originally bred for?  How can you use this in your training?  Akitas were
>> bred for hunting, so when we come across obstacles that Zion must walk
>> around, it's better for him and me, if i allow him to find a way around it
>> on his own.
>> 
>> In order to train service dogs properly, in my oppinion, you need to
>> understand basic dog behavior.  I'd even go so far as to say, in order to
>> work with a service dog, you need to understand dog behavior, but I don't
>> want to start a holy war over it lol
>> 
>> I can't tell you the people i've run into who think that just because their
>> dog is a guide dog it shouldn't have the same bad habbits a pet dog might
>> have.
>> 
>> Maybe i'm just preaching to the choir as it were, and I don't mean to make
>> it sound as if the owner/trainers on here just don't have common sense,
>> because I'm sure that those of you who've worked (not just owned) but worked
>> with many dogs know this.
>> 
>> I just get baffled at people (and I don't just mean those on this list) who
>> want to train a dog for any ort of service work and know hardly anything
>> about your general dog behavior.  It's like they see service dog training
>> and regular obedience training as separate, and they're not. they all build
>> on one another.  Then there's your typical person who wants to train a
>> "service dog" just so their pet can go into places with them.
>> 
>> Okay, i'm done with my ranting.
>> 
>> Understand that i'm not pointing anyone out here.  I just want those who are
>> starting out on owner training to understand that there's more to it, but i
>> don't think anyone can really understand that until they've worked with
>> dogs.
>> 
>> Zion is my first service dog that i've trained, but I've trained other dogs.
>> In fact, by the end of next year I hope to have a certificate by the
>> certification counsel of professional dog trainers, which will certify me in
>> dog training.
>> 
>> PS: sorry if I came across as a bit blunt or whatever. sugar coating things
>> has never been my strong point, so I can come across as more bitchy than i
>> intend. :)
>> 
>> On Sep 8, 2014, at 1:59 PM, The Pawpower Pack via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm not familiar with the Florida law, but if Florida gives trainers with
>>> pups the same rights and responsibilities as trained dogs, then the ADA
>>> says that handlers of service dogs can be asked to remove the dog if it is
>>> not toilet trained and or if it is causing a disturbance, like whining or
>>> barking.
>>> As a trainer, I do not take dogs into places inside until the dog has
>>> proven, over a period of weeks, that it is toilet trained.  Also that it
>>> can be quiet for long periods of time.  I do this by accessing many dog
>>> friendly outdoor spaces.
>>> I also do not think that a puppy is ready for a whole day at school.  This
>>> is a very young dog, it's only job right now is to be a young dog and
>>> explore the world.
>>> I wish you the best.
>>> 
>>> Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
>>> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
>>> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 8, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Jessica Roberts via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I sent an email today to the director of the office for students with
>>>> disabilities for one of the campuses for which I'm attending next
>>>> week.
>>>> I obviously want to take my puppy with me because of the exposure to
>>>> things, and because its a long time to leave a puppy alone.
>>>> I got an email back saying that I could not bring the puppy until its
>>>> house broken, because they don't want it having accidents, whining, or
>>>> disrupting classes.
>>>> My plan was to have puppy in a wheeled carrier for a few weeks anyway
>>>> because of house breaking stuff, and also because puppy has not had
>>>> all her shots so she'd be safe, too.
>>>> She then informed me she'd let her boss contact the colleges lawyer to
>>>> get educated about service dogs in training.
>>>> Florida Statute 413.08 states that service dogs in training have the
>>>> same rights as fully trained guide dogs. Am I right to push this or
>>>> should I leave puppy home crated until they think its appropriate?
>>>> I don't wanna do the second because of all the socialization things
>>>> that'd be missed.
>>>> The puppy is fine in a crate and I'm sure will be fine in the carrier
>>>> too, the plan was to put her in there with a puppy nylabone, and to
>>>> take her out for cuddle and potty time between classes and such.
>>>> Thoughts, suggestions, help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>> Jessica
>>>> 
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>> 
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