[nagdu] discrimination for service pups in training./my little rant

Valerie Gibson valandkayla at gmail.com
Mon Sep 8 22:33:50 UTC 2014


I'm so glad you've made arrangements for your puppy. :)

I think it really depends on the dog.  As you work with the dog, oyu'll know the dog better, and you'll know when the dog will be able to be taken to class.  
Take it one step at a time.  Get the pup out and about when you have fre time, and socialize the puppy to other friendly people and friendly dogs.  
Get the dog in basic obediance classes or work one on one with a trainer if you don't know how to tain yourself.  I like puppy classes during the early stages because it does get the dogs used to strange people, dogs, sights, smells, etc.  I am opposed to group puppy training classes where your puppy is made to work for an hour on commands.  To me, it's too long of a training session, and I'd prefer to set my puppy up for success when first training him on something...this isnt' easy to do when you've got a bunch of other puppies around.  But, to each his own.

Get your puppy used to you, and most importantly, what you expect of him/her.  This is important.  

For Zion, I accomplished this by keeping him in his kennel when we weren't training or playing. Gradually he got to spend more and more time outside of the kennel, but as he gained more privledges inside the home, he gained more structure outside of the home.  Whereas once people could pet him pretty much all of the time, now I decided when he could be petted, and I used what obedience commands he'd learned as stipulation for pets.  

Once he is well mannered around strangers, then you can start thinking of more structured places to take him.  

Hope this helps. :)

On Sep 8, 2014, at 4:25 PM, Jessica Roberts <kittycatforever0214 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I had actually looked into everything before we got the pups, but then
> this lady came out at me today. I had asked her before and it was
> okay.
> I've made arrangements for someoen to come let pups out the 2 days a
> week we're gone longer than they can hold there bladders for now.
> What age do you guys think is appropriate to take them to the college
> say, for an hour and a half class or so?
> Its not a showing off thing at all, but that I want to do this right
> and I want to expose the pups to as much as I can.
> Jessica
> On 9/8/14, Valerie Gibson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I'm in agreement here.  While I do believe there are some places your puppy
>> should go to get acustomed to the world, most of those places are outside.
>> For example, I took Zion onto the train when he was around 10 weeks.  owever
>> we never went on the train if  he showed any signs of fear.  Sometimes, we'd
>> just sit near the train, and he would watch people getting on and off of the
>> train.  We went into places like walmart together as well when he was a
>> young pup.  However I always made sure that the trips were short enough to
>> provide a potty break before and after.  Because he was still very young, I
>> was always willing to just allow him to sleep in his kennel while i went out
>> to run around.
>> If your dog is not potty trained, I'm assuming it's around 3 months.  It's
>> good that you're thinking about socialization, but taking the pup to a
>> school is too much.  Zion goes to school with me now, and there are times
>> when he gets restless.  That is due to the fact that he's ten months old and
>> still a puppy, but slowly, he's getting better at calming down.  Another
>> thing you want to consider is that if you take the dog to a college campus,
>> everyone's going to want to pet the dog.  This is good for the puppy, but he
>> might come to associate the college campus with play and free pets.  I
>> recommend taking him to campus on a day where you don't have class and can
>> stroll aroud. It's what I did when Zion was four months.
>> I don't mean to sound harsh, but it seems to me that you just want to show
>> off your new puppy. Him/her being a service dog in training offers you the
>> perk of being able to take it around to places.
>> There's nothing wrong with wanting to do this, but there's a time and place
>> to do it right now.  On a time where you don't necessarily get free time is
>> not one.
>> Truly I understand your eagerness to show off your friend.  There were times
>> I had to remind myself that Zion was still X months old and wasn't ready for
>> something.  It didn't help that he was so big.
>> My second pet peeve about this is: Why are you training a dog if you don't
>> have the time?  Or, why not clear it with your disability center before you
>> got puppy, that way you'd know, okay, it may not be able to come with me to
>> class so I need to plan my class schedule around it's schedule, or make
>> arangements for it's care while I am away?
>> You don't need to answer these on list or even in an email to me.  Part of
>> this is just my venting.
>> I get that everyone has their own circumstances, but the dog didn't ask to
>> be placed in your life, especially if it's a puppy you're owner training.
>> okay, now this is just my venting, not to/about anyone in particular.
>> This goes for pets too. If you can't take care of your dog, at any time, for
>> any reason, make arrangements for it's care, wether that's for a dog walker
>> to come by, taking it to a daycare, leaving it with a friend, etc.  If you
>> can't do that, or can't afford it, you don't need to be training a dog.
>> If something comes up, after you've got the puppy, and it's nothing that you
>> could have prevented before you got the puppy, that's a little different.
>> As a dog trainer you need to understand life stages of dogs, what hurtles
>> you'll need to jump at what stage, and various ways to overcome those
>> hurtles.  For example, if your dog is chewing everything in sight and it's 5
>> months old, you should know that it's teeth, and this shall last roughly
>> until the dogs 7 months old.  If your dog, who once was an obedient puppy,
>> suddenly decides it's not going to listen to anything yo say, and it's a
>> year old, that'a adolescence and understand that you might have to start
>> back at square one, but that this too shall pass.  You should understand
>> breed in that not all dogs train or work the same.  What was your dog
>> originally bred for?  How can you use this in your training?  Akitas were
>> bred for hunting, so when we come across obstacles that Zion must walk
>> around, it's better for him and me, if i allow him to find a way around it
>> on his own.
>> In order to train service dogs properly, in my oppinion, you need to
>> understand basic dog behavior.  I'd even go so far as to say, in order to
>> work with a service dog, you need to understand dog behavior, but I don't
>> want to start a holy war over it lol
>> I can't tell you the people i've run into who think that just because their
>> dog is a guide dog it shouldn't have the same bad habbits a pet dog might
>> have.
>> Maybe i'm just preaching to the choir as it were, and I don't mean to make
>> it sound as if the owner/trainers on here just don't have common sense,
>> because I'm sure that those of you who've worked (not just owned) but worked
>> with many dogs know this.
>> I just get baffled at people (and I don't just mean those on this list) who
>> want to train a dog for any ort of service work and know hardly anything
>> about your general dog behavior.  It's like they see service dog training
>> and regular obedience training as separate, and they're not. they all build
>> on one another.  Then there's your typical person who wants to train a
>> "service dog" just so their pet can go into places with them.
>> Okay, i'm done with my ranting.
>> Understand that i'm not pointing anyone out here.  I just want those who are
>> starting out on owner training to understand that there's more to it, but i
>> don't think anyone can really understand that until they've worked with
>> dogs.
>> Zion is my first service dog that i've trained, but I've trained other dogs.
>> In fact, by the end of next year I hope to have a certificate by the
>> certification counsel of professional dog trainers, which will certify me in
>> dog training.
>> PS: sorry if I came across as a bit blunt or whatever. sugar coating things
>> has never been my strong point, so I can come across as more bitchy than i
>> intend. :)
>> On Sep 8, 2014, at 1:59 PM, The Pawpower Pack via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>> I'm not familiar with the Florida law, but if Florida gives trainers with
>>> pups the same rights and responsibilities as trained dogs, then the ADA
>>> says that handlers of service dogs can be asked to remove the dog if it is
>>> not toilet trained and or if it is causing a disturbance, like whining or
>>> barking.
>>> As a trainer, I do not take dogs into places inside until the dog has
>>> proven, over a period of weeks, that it is toilet trained.  Also that it
>>> can be quiet for long periods of time.  I do this by accessing many dog
>>> friendly outdoor spaces.
>>> I also do not think that a puppy is ready for a whole day at school.  This
>>> is a very young dog, it's only job right now is to be a young dog and
>>> explore the world.
>>> I wish you the best.
>>> Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
>>> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
>>> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> On Sep 8, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Jessica Roberts via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I sent an email today to the director of the office for students with
>>>> disabilities for one of the campuses for which I'm attending next
>>>> week.
>>>> I obviously want to take my puppy with me because of the exposure to
>>>> things, and because its a long time to leave a puppy alone.
>>>> I got an email back saying that I could not bring the puppy until its
>>>> house broken, because they don't want it having accidents, whining, or
>>>> disrupting classes.
>>>> My plan was to have puppy in a wheeled carrier for a few weeks anyway
>>>> because of house breaking stuff, and also because puppy has not had
>>>> all her shots so she'd be safe, too.
>>>> She then informed me she'd let her boss contact the colleges lawyer to
>>>> get educated about service dogs in training.
>>>> Florida Statute 413.08 states that service dogs in training have the
>>>> same rights as fully trained guide dogs. Am I right to push this or
>>>> should I leave puppy home crated until they think its appropriate?
>>>> I don't wanna do the second because of all the socialization things
>>>> that'd be missed.
>>>> The puppy is fine in a crate and I'm sure will be fine in the carrier
>>>> too, the plan was to put her in there with a puppy nylabone, and to
>>>> take her out for cuddle and potty time between classes and such.
>>>> Thoughts, suggestions, help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>> Jessica
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