[nagdu] Service Dogs on Public Transportation was RE: Uber sued for allegedly refusing rides to the blindandputting a dog in the trunk
Nicole Torcolini
ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Sat Sep 13 04:37:47 UTC 2014
I am sorry, but I respectfully disagree. In public places, there are places
for humans and places for dogs. Of course, there are those places that
neither dog nor human should be, such as in the trunk. Part of not getting
the public annoyed with us is keeping our dogs in the dog places. And, no, I
do not cram Lexia anywhere. If there is not enough room behind the driver's
seat, I simply ask the driver to move the seat forward a little.
And just because someone doesn't say anything about your dog on the seat
does not mean that it is not bothering them and that they won't take it out
on the next person after you.
Nicole and Lexia
-----Original Message-----
From: Raven Tolliver [mailto:ravend729 at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 12:56 AM
To: Nicole Torcolini; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service Dogs on Public Transportation was RE: Uber sued
for allegedly refusing rides to the blindandputting a dog in the trunk
On buses and trains, my dog certainly remains on the floor. But in most
taxis or cars, he rides on the seat right beside me. Many people seem to be
all for cramming, crunching, and folding their dog up into uncomfortably
tight spaces. I'm not. If there is plenty of room on the floor, I will of
course put my dog there. But if not, he lays on the seat next to me, and I
don't carry a towel unless it is raining. If anyone has ever objected to my
dog being on the seat, they certainly never have asserted themselves.
On 9/11/14, Nicole Torcolini via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Different people do different things. For me, Lexia rides on the floor
> on all types of public transportation. The one time that she was not
> on the floor was when I was in San Francisco on one of those open air
> cable cars where there is a bench and a platform for your feet and
> literally nowhere for a dog to sit or stand. On that one occasion,
> Lexia rode in my lap. This was not according to plan.
> I consider it inconsiderate and rude to let your dog ride on the seat
> of a taxi, particularly if the seat is leather. Some people carry a
> towel or blanket to put on the seat, but this is extra hassle for me.
> Lexia rides on the floor behind the driver, and I ride behind the
> passenger seat. If there is one other person, that person rides in the
> front. If the taxi is full, I ride in the front with Lexia between my
> legs. It is apparent that some of the taxi drivers whom I have met had
> a dog ride on the seat at one point because they tell me not to put
> the dog on the seat. One person even put newspaper on the seat.
> On the shuttle that I take to and from work, there is enough room
> that Lexia and I get a double seat to ourselves. Because there is not
> time for seat hunting, I always sit in the same seat. Usually, it is
> empty. If not, the driver asks the person to move.
> Yes, we have laws, but that does not mean that they are followed.
> And they are not easy to enforce, especially when the law enforcement
> does not know about them.
>
> Nicole and Lexia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry D
> Keeler via nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 4:57 PM
> To: Fatmir Seremeti; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of
> Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Uber sued for allegedly refusing rides to the
> blindandputting a dog in the trunk
>
> Usually on the floor at your feet. In a larger car such as a van they
> can sit in the back or beside you. And, sometimes in personal cars on the
seat.
>
> This is not usually done in public transportation though. They also go
> on busses. Iether under or slightly in front of the seat. Oh guys, the
> stroller seats on some busses are great for dogs! When they're not
> being used, I love them!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fatmir Seremeti via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: "Janice Toothman" <janice.toothman at verizon.net>; "NAGDU Mailing
> List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 6:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Uber sued for allegedly refusing rides to the
> blind andputting a dog in the trunk
>
>
>> Hi all!
>> I wish we could have at least half of your ADA here in Sweden. I see
>> guides riding in the trunk here all the time and if you complaint
>> they just don't care. Just curious; are you guys in the US always
>> aloud to have your guide beside you on a car-chair or on the flor?
>> How do you do if the car is full or there isn't enough space on the
flour?
>> Here is also a lot of problems with businesses and public places
>> denying guide-dog users access referring to allergies and no pet
>> policies.
>> Sorry for my maybe stupid questions but we seam to have a totaly
>> different set of laws and regulations here.
>> By the way I've been accepted to go to my first guide-dog
>> introduction week in the end of October. I'm so exited!!!
>> Med vänliga hälsningar / best regards Fatmir seremeti
>> +46705103634
>> www.goalballfatmir.blogg.se
>> Twitter: @goalballfatmir
>>
>>
>>> 11 sep 2014 kl. 23:45 skrev Janice Toothman via nagdu
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>:
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>> I have never used my guide dog school ID because I do not feel that
>>> is what would help me out of a situation. It is explaining the
>>> LAW-ADA and how it applies to the situation at hand. This is why
>>> everyone as guide dog uses have to be well versed in th ADA law so
>>> we know what the discrimination is and how to address.
>>> Janice
>>>> On 9/11/2014 1:31 PM, Amber M via nagdu wrote:
>>>> Hi Abby,
>>>> Before I say anything about the situation, I would like to say that
>>>> this is just my opinion. So it is Benoni means correct, or upheld
>>>> by majority. But... And I do reiterate, this is my opinion... When
>>>> someone who attends a guy dog school shows an ID to get out of a
>>>> stressful situation, they then make it difficult for the owner
>>>> trained guy dog who comes after them. Because the business then
>>>> expects that an ID will be shown, and can be expected.
>>>>
>>>> I will not pretend that it is easier to stand up for your rights
>>>> when you are in a hurry, or when the person just doesn't seem to
>>>> get it,
> etc.
>>>> etc. But just like you don't want a blind person who attends a
>>>> school before you, to make you look like you are not capable of
>>>> doing for yourself, and wished they would take that extra moment to
>>>> do something for themselves, owner trainers have a really hard time
>>>> going behind program trained dog handlers, who do tend to use their
>>>> ID a
> lot.
>>>> Again, just my opinion, and by no means is it what everyone else
>>>> believes.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Amber
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 11:34 AM, Abigail Bolling via nagdu
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem of explaining that the dog is a service animal, I
>>>>> know this may sound harsh, but as far as I know, the service
>>>>> animal schools give there handlers ID cards for a reason. A lot of
>>>>> Dog users that I know refuse to carry them, to which my opinion is
>>>>> a lot of situations could possibly be avoided just by showing an
>>>>> ID card.
>>>>> I know we shouldn't have to show an ID card to make our point and
>>>>> it is certainly annoying, but sometimes it is just easier to go
>>>>> that extra stupid step to save a little headache later.
>>>>> Also, I know I said this on another post about this article, but
>>>>> it is the responsibility of the handler to know where their dog is
>>>>> at all times, so why did the handler let the dog be taken away
>>>>> from him and placed in the trunk in the first place.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Abby and my little Shadow, Jada.
>>>>>
>>>>> Abigail Bolling
>>>>> Wright State University: Social Work
>>>>>
>>>>> "Keep a smile on your face and a song in your heart, and just let
>>>>> the music play." (Julie Anderson Diamond)
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 8:33 AM, Ginger Kutsch via nagdu
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Uber sued for allegedly refusing rides to the blind and putting a
>>>>>> dog in the trunk
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By Gail Sullivan September 10 Washington Post
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/09/10/uber
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> sued-for-a
>>>>>> llegedly-refusing-rides-to-the-blind-and-putting-a-dog-in-the-tru
>>>>>> n
>>>>>> k/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An advocacy group for the blind is suing the app-based
>>>>>> ride-sharing service Uber, alleging the company discriminates
>>>>>> against passengers with service dogs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The federal civil rights suit filed Tuesday by the California
>>>>>> chapter of the National Federation of the Blind cites instances
>>>>>> in California and elsewhere when blind Uber customers summoned a
>>>>>> car only to be refused a ride once the driver saw them with a
>>>>>> service dog. In some cases, drivers allegedly abandoned blind
>>>>>> travelers in extreme weather and charged cancellation fees after
>>>>>> denying them rides, the complaint said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The complaint filed in a Northern California District Court cites
>>>>>> one instance where a California UberX driver put a service dog in
>>>>>> the trunk and refused to pull over when the blind passenger
>>>>>> realized where the animal was.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On another occasion a passenger was trying to explain that his
>>>>>> dog was not a pet but a service animal when the driver allegedly
>>>>>> cursed at him and accelerated abruptly, nearly injuring the dog
>>>>>> and striking the passenger's friend, who is also blind, with an
>>>>>> open car door.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The group said it's aware of more than 30 times blind customers
>>>>>> were denied rides in violation of the American with Disabilities
>>>>>> Act and California state law.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As a result, blind passengers are confronting unexpected delays
>>>>>> and "face the degrading experience of being denied a basic
>>>>>> service that is available to all other paying customers," the
>>>>>> complaint said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Services such as Uber are quickly supplanting traditional taxis,
>>>>>> a service blind people rely on due to the limitations of public
>>>>>> transportation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind wants Uber to educate its
>>>>>> drivers about disability rights and punish the violators in
>>>>>> addition to providing a way for disabled passengers to
>>>>>> immediately register complaints when they are refused rides
>>>>>> because of service dogs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a statement reported by the San Francisco Examiner, Uber said
>>>>>> its policy is to terminate drivers who refuse to transport
>>>>>> service animals. "The Uber app is built to expand access to
>>>>>> transportation options for all, including users with visual
>>>>>> impairments and other disabilities," the statement said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, Uber allegedly told some passengers it can't control
>>>>>> what drivers do because they are independent contractors. The
>>>>>> company advised them to let drivers know about their animals
>>>>>> ahead of time, said the Federation, which filed suit after Uber
>>>>>> rejected its request to negotiate a solution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The group claims the company closely monitors and controls its
>>>>>> drivers by managing payments and services through the app, and by
>>>>>> assessing driver performance based on customer feedback.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In September 2013,California's Public Utilities Commission
>>>>>> classified UberX as a transportation provider because it
>>>>>> functions like a taxi dispatch. The commission also said that
>>>>>> UberX may not discriminate against the disabled, the Federation
noted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Figuring out whether to treat Uber like a traditional taxi
>>>>>> service or something else is the subject of heated debate across the
country.
>>>>>> Taxi
>>>>>> services are required by federal law to serve the disabled, even
>>>>>> if drivers are independent contractors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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--
Raven
"if God didn't make it, don't eat it." - John B. Symes, D.V.M.
http://dogtorj.com
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