[nagdu] Service Dogs on Public Transportation was RE: Uber suedfor allegedly refusing rides to the blindandputting a dog inthe trunk

Sat Sep 13 14:46:18 UTC 2014

In a private vehicle, things are different. I always carry a small towel and 
such. I think the idea here is public transport not private. Of course, in 
private vehicles you can do whatever you or the driver wishes!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Danielle Burton via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "Nicole Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>; "NAGDU Mailing List,the 
National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service Dogs on Public Transportation was RE: Uber 
suedfor allegedly refusing rides to the blindandputting a dog inthe trunk


> well, in my own vehicle my dog is in the seat because I'm sorry, I but if 
> she's in the floor you have no room for you or your dog. But í always take 
> a towel or sheet if I ride in someone else's car whether shall
> can get on the floor or not. It may not keep all the hair out but it 
> certainly helps. I always offer to bring something for my dog to lay on. 
> My family however, refuses to let me do that though.
>
> Danielle and Willa
>
>
>> On Sep 13, 2014, at 12:37 AM, Nicole Torcolini via nagdu 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I am sorry, but I respectfully disagree. In public places, there are 
>> places
>> for humans and places for dogs. Of course, there are those places that
>> neither dog nor human should be, such as in the trunk. Part of not 
>> getting
>> the public annoyed with us is keeping our dogs in the dog places. And, 
>> no, I
>> do not cram Lexia anywhere. If there is not enough room behind the 
>> driver's
>> seat, I simply ask the driver to move the seat forward a little.
>> And just because someone doesn't say anything about your dog on the seat
>> does not mean that it is not bothering them and that they won't take it 
>> out
>> on the next person after you.
>>
>> Nicole and Lexia
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Raven Tolliver [mailto:ravend729 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 12:56 AM
>> To: Nicole Torcolini; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of 
>> Guide
>> Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service Dogs on Public Transportation was RE: Uber 
>> sued
>> for allegedly refusing rides to the blindandputting a dog in the trunk
>>
>> On buses and trains, my dog certainly remains on the floor. But in most
>> taxis or cars, he rides on the seat right beside me. Many people seem to 
>> be
>> all for cramming, crunching, and folding their dog up into uncomfortably
>> tight spaces. I'm not. If there is plenty of room on the floor, I will of
>> course put my dog there. But if not, he lays on the seat next to me, and 
>> I
>> don't carry a towel unless it is raining. If anyone has ever objected to 
>> my
>> dog being on the seat, they certainly never have asserted themselves.
>>
>>> On 9/11/14, Nicole Torcolini via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Different people do different things. For me, Lexia rides on the floor
>>> on all types of public transportation. The one time that she was not
>>> on the floor was when I was in San Francisco  on one of those open air
>>> cable cars where there is a bench and a platform for your feet and
>>> literally nowhere for a dog to sit or stand. On that one occasion,
>>> Lexia rode in my lap. This was not according to plan.
>>> I consider it inconsiderate and rude to let your dog ride on the seat
>>> of a taxi, particularly if the seat is leather. Some people carry a
>>> towel or blanket to put on the seat, but this is extra hassle for me.
>>> Lexia rides on the floor behind the driver, and I ride behind the
>>> passenger seat. If there is one other person, that person rides in the
>>> front. If the taxi is full, I ride in the front with Lexia between my
>>> legs. It is apparent that some of the taxi drivers whom I have met had
>>> a dog ride on the seat at one point because they tell me not to put
>>> the dog on the seat. One person even put newspaper on the seat.
>>>    On the shuttle that I take to and from work, there is enough room
>>> that Lexia and I get a double seat to ourselves. Because there is not
>>> time for seat hunting, I always sit in the same seat. Usually, it is
>>> empty. If not, the driver asks the person to move.
>>>    Yes, we have laws, but that does not mean that they are followed.
>>> And they are not easy to enforce, especially when the law enforcement
>>> does not know about them.
>>>
>>> Nicole and Lexia
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry D
>>> Keeler via nagdu
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 4:57 PM
>>> To: Fatmir Seremeti; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of
>>> Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Uber sued for allegedly refusing rides to the
>>> blindandputting a dog in the trunk
>>>
>>> Usually on the floor at your feet. In a larger car such as a van they
>>> can sit in the back or beside you. And, sometimes in personal cars on 
>>> the
>> seat.
>>>
>>> This is not usually done in public transportation though. They also go
>>> on busses. Iether under or slightly in front of the seat. Oh guys, the
>>> stroller seats on some busses are great for dogs! When they're not
>>> being used, I love them!
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Fatmir Seremeti via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> To: "Janice Toothman" <janice.toothman at verizon.net>; "NAGDU Mailing
>>> List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 6:31 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Uber sued for allegedly refusing rides to the
>>> blind andputting a dog in the trunk
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi all!
>>>> I wish we could have at least half of your ADA here in Sweden. I see
>>>> guides riding in the trunk here all the time and if you complaint
>>>> they just don't care. Just curious; are you guys in the US always
>>>> aloud to have your guide beside you on a car-chair or on the flor?
>>>> How do you do if the car is full or there isn't enough space on the
>> flour?
>>>> Here is also a lot of problems with businesses and public places
>>>> denying guide-dog users access referring to allergies and no pet
>>>> policies.
>>>> Sorry for my maybe stupid questions but we seam to have a totaly
>>>> different set of laws and regulations here.
>>>> By the way I've been accepted to go to my first guide-dog
>>>> introduction week in the end of October. I'm so exited!!!
>>>> Med vänliga hälsningar / best regards Fatmir seremeti
>>>> +46705103634
>>>> www.goalballfatmir.blogg.se
>>>> Twitter: @goalballfatmir
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 11 sep 2014 kl. 23:45 skrev Janice Toothman via nagdu
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> I have never used my guide dog school ID because I do not feel that
>>>>> is what would help me out of a situation.  It is explaining the
>>>>> LAW-ADA and how it applies to the situation at hand.  This is why
>>>>> everyone as guide dog uses have to be well versed in th ADA law so
>>>>> we know what the discrimination is and how to address.
>>>>> Janice
>>>>>> On 9/11/2014 1:31 PM, Amber M via nagdu wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Abby,
>>>>>> Before I say anything about the situation, I would like to say that
>>>>>> this is just my opinion. So it is Benoni means correct, or upheld
>>>>>> by majority. But... And I do reiterate, this is my opinion... When
>>>>>> someone who attends a guy dog school shows an ID to get out of a
>>>>>> stressful situation, they then make it difficult for the owner
>>>>>> trained guy dog who comes after them. Because the business then
>>>>>> expects that an ID will be shown, and can be expected.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will not pretend that it is easier to stand up for your rights
>>>>>> when you are in a hurry, or when the person just doesn't seem to
>>>>>> get it,
>>> etc.
>>>>>> etc. But just like you don't want a blind person who attends a
>>>>>> school before you, to make you look like you are not capable of
>>>>>> doing for yourself, and wished they would take that extra moment to
>>>>>> do something for themselves, owner trainers have a really hard time
>>>>>> going behind program trained dog handlers, who do tend to use their
>>>>>> ID a
>>> lot.
>>>>>> Again, just my opinion, and by no means is it what everyone else
>>>>>> believes.
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Amber
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 11:34 AM, Abigail Bolling via nagdu
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The problem of explaining  that the dog is a service animal, I
>>>>>>> know this may sound harsh, but as far as I know, the service
>>>>>>> animal schools give there handlers ID cards for a reason. A lot of
>>>>>>> Dog users that I know refuse to carry them, to which my opinion is
>>>>>>> a lot of situations could possibly be avoided just by showing an
>>>>>>> ID card.
>>>>>>> I know we shouldn't have to show an ID card to make our point and
>>>>>>> it is certainly annoying, but sometimes it is just easier to go
>>>>>>> that extra stupid step to save a little headache later.
>>>>>>> Also, I know I said this on another post about this article, but
>>>>>>> it is the responsibility of the handler to know where their dog is
>>>>>>> at all times, so why did the handler let the dog be taken away
>>>>>>> from him and placed in the trunk in the first place.
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Abby and my little Shadow, Jada.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Abigail Bolling
>>>>>>> Wright State University: Social Work
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Keep a smile on your face and a song in your heart, and just let
>>>>>>> the music play." (Julie Anderson Diamond)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 8:33 AM, Ginger Kutsch via nagdu
>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Uber sued for allegedly refusing rides to the blind and putting a
>>>>>>>> dog in the trunk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By Gail Sullivan September 10 Washington Post
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/09/10/uber
>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>> sued-for-a
>>>>>>>> llegedly-refusing-rides-to-the-blind-and-putting-a-dog-in-the-tru
>>>>>>>> n
>>>>>>>> k/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An advocacy group for the blind is suing the app-based
>>>>>>>> ride-sharing service Uber, alleging the company discriminates
>>>>>>>> against passengers with service dogs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The federal civil rights suit filed Tuesday by the California
>>>>>>>> chapter of the National Federation of the Blind cites instances
>>>>>>>> in California and elsewhere when blind Uber customers summoned a
>>>>>>>> car only to be refused a ride once the driver saw them with a
>>>>>>>> service dog. In some cases, drivers allegedly abandoned blind
>>>>>>>> travelers in extreme weather and charged cancellation fees after
>>>>>>>> denying them rides, the complaint said.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The complaint filed in a Northern California District Court cites
>>>>>>>> one instance where a California UberX driver put a service dog in
>>>>>>>> the trunk and refused to pull over when the blind passenger
>>>>>>>> realized where the animal was.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On another occasion a passenger was trying to explain that his
>>>>>>>> dog was not a pet but a service animal when the driver allegedly
>>>>>>>> cursed at him and accelerated abruptly, nearly injuring the dog
>>>>>>>> and striking the passenger's friend, who is also blind, with an
>>>>>>>> open car door.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The group said it's aware of more than 30 times blind customers
>>>>>>>> were denied rides in violation of the American with Disabilities
>>>>>>>> Act and California state law.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As a result, blind passengers are confronting unexpected delays
>>>>>>>> and "face the degrading experience of being denied a basic
>>>>>>>> service that is available to all other paying customers," the
>>>>>>>> complaint said.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Services such as Uber are quickly supplanting traditional taxis,
>>>>>>>> a service blind people rely on due to the limitations of public
>>>>>>>> transportation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind wants Uber to educate its
>>>>>>>> drivers about disability rights and punish the violators in
>>>>>>>> addition to providing a way for disabled passengers to
>>>>>>>> immediately register complaints when they are refused rides
>>>>>>>> because of service dogs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In a statement reported by the San Francisco Examiner, Uber said
>>>>>>>> its policy is to terminate drivers who refuse to transport
>>>>>>>> service animals. "The Uber app is built to expand access to
>>>>>>>> transportation options for all, including users with visual
>>>>>>>> impairments and other disabilities," the statement said.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However, Uber allegedly told some passengers it can't control
>>>>>>>> what drivers do because they are independent contractors. The
>>>>>>>> company advised them to let drivers know about their animals
>>>>>>>> ahead of time, said the Federation, which filed suit after Uber
>>>>>>>> rejected its request to negotiate a solution.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The group claims the company closely monitors and controls its
>>>>>>>> drivers by managing payments and services through the app, and by
>>>>>>>> assessing driver performance based on customer feedback.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In September 2013,California's Public Utilities Commission
>>>>>>>> classified UberX as a transportation provider because it
>>>>>>>> functions like a taxi dispatch. The commission also said that
>>>>>>>> UberX may not discriminate against the disabled, the Federation
>> noted.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Figuring out whether to treat Uber like a traditional taxi
>>>>>>>> service or something else is the subject of heated debate across 
>>>>>>>> the
>> country.
>>>>>>>> Taxi
>>>>>>>> services are required by federal law to serve the disabled, even
>>>>>>>> if drivers are independent contractors.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Raven
>> "if God didn't make it, don't eat it." - John B. Symes, D.V.M.
>> http://dogtorj.com
>>
>>
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