[nagdu] weight question

Nicole Torcolini ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Sat Sep 13 18:47:38 UTC 2014


I agree with what Rox says and does in regards to working with bets. Any
good vet will listen to you and will not force you to do anything. If you
don't like your vet, go find another one. I know that that can be hard for
some people, especially if there is only one vet office in the area, but it
is one of things that comes with using a guide dog. And consulting with a
vet does not mean nothing. If a vet does not give you all of the facts, I
highly doubt that it is on purpose. Yes, I agree that, sometimes, especially
if it is in regards to a new/rare treatment or condition, the vet may not
have all of the information. On the other hand, if a vet specializes in one
particular area, that vet may have information based on personal experiences
that is not available on the internet.
	Also, to Raven, if I am reading your message correctly, it seems
that you are suggesting that vets would deliberately not treat a dog or
treat the dog in a way that would prolong the condition rather than curing
it. This is not true, and frankly, I am getting tired of hearing it. Just
because you have had a bad experience does not mean that everyone else will
have the same experience. Most vets care about the animals. Yes, I have met
vets for which I did not particularly care. One vet did recommend a food for
Lexia when she had pancreatitis that contained what we thought might be
causing the pancreatitis, so I did not feed that food. But that was only one
vet. The vet who I use now is very nice. Of course, it is good to get
multiple opinions if possible. If you have a program trained dog and are
comfortable doing so, it never hurts to talk to the vet at the program as
the program vet may have more information on that specific breed, what is
best for a working dog, and the previous medical history of your dog before
you received the dog.
	As for food itself, as with all things related to dog health, use as
many resources as you want, but don't rely on just one. Talking to a vet
might be a good idea, especially if your dog has certain medical conditions
that affect what your dog can eat, but it is not always necessary. Some
signs that you need to switch food might be:
1. You have to feed a lot just to get enough protein
2. Your dog is sluggish
3. Your dog is relieving often and a large amount
4. Your dog is vomiting a lot
5. Your dog has soft or runny stool
6. Your dog is having a hard time relieving
7. Your dog is having an allergic reaction, such as scratching, that seems
to be caused by the food
Some guidelines for finding a good food are:
1. The first ingredient should be protein and not a meal
2. No bi products
3. No fillers
4. Not too many vegetables, especially broccoli
5. Any other considerations specific to your dog, such as allergies, grain
free, and fat percentage
Finally, carefully read all of the "benefits" of a dog food. Something that
a company claims to be a benefit may turn out to be a problem. For example,
some foods claim that they will make the coat of your dog shiny. But how?
Could whatever it is also have some negative health effect?

Nicole and Lexia

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The Pawpower Pack
via nagdu
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 11:18 AM
To: Valerie Gibson; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] weight question

I think every vet is different.  My vet has had the traditional vet
training. He sells Science Diet, etc. But he knows I feed raw, always has
great things to say about my dogs teeth and health, and when I board my
retired dogs there I make their meals ahead- I'm spending all day today
doing that!  They are fed a raw diet during boarding.  He has been my vet
for the last 11 years, and always says that he wishes everyone's dogs were
as healthy as mine.  
So I think it's not black and white. I've met some really bad holistic vets,
and my vet is as traditional as they come, but he respects me, discusses
things with me like an adult, knows that I will be conducting research of my
own, and that with the knowledge both of bring to the table, we will be the
better for 2 heads solving a problem.  

 Rox and the kitchen Bitches: 
Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
Pawpower4me at gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 13, 2014, at 12:23 PM, Valerie Gibson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> 
> Whoah, I didn't mean to start a war over this. :)
> 
> My asking the vet advice was not for neutrition, but for underlying
medical health conditions.  
> 
> I amlucky, I think in that my vet actually recommended a premium brand of
freeze dried food.  The only reason she didn't recommend raw was because, at
the time, Zion already had an overgrowth of bacteria in his gut, and she
didn't want to run the risk of adding more.  Once wefigure out what he
cannot obsorb, we'll talk more about food...my vet and me, I mean.
>> On Sep 13, 2014, at 12:48 AM, Raven Tolliver via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
>> 
>> Unfortunately, I haven't found a veterinarian that I can trust, 
>> especially when it comes to carnivore nutrition. Most veterinarians 
>> know nothing about carnivore nutrition, and are not even required to 
>> receive any training or take courses in it. As far as I'm concerned, 
>> I am just as, if not more qualified to give nutrition advice than 
>> most conventional vets. In my book, any professional who recommends 
>> processed foods over fresh foods for any animal is undereducated or 
>> highly misinformed. What kind of sense does it make to say that dead, 
>> nutrient-depleted food is better than live, nutrient-dense food? I 
>> don't care how much school anyone has been through, if they hold that 
>> opinion, then I'm not putting my dog's health in their hands, which 
>> leads me to my next point.
>> People should make health decisions for their dogs external of what 
>> vets say. Certainly consider it, but don't make a decision solely 
>> based on what vets do and say. At the end of the day, your dog's 
>> health is your responsibility only, and if anything goes wrong, it is 
>> not because of what a vet said, but due to a decision on your part. 
>> If you research, research, research, and make an educated decision, 
>> you're doing your best. Consulting with a vet means nothing in most 
>> cases, because (a) they don't give you all the facts; (b) they won't 
>> give you all the facts; and (c) they can't give you all the facts.
>> Those people have been forced to study for hours on end, have had 
>> mantras pounded into their brains, and quizzed to exhaustion until 
>> they believe the nonsense that propagates the unhealth, imbalance, 
>> and diseased conditions of dogs worldwide. They are taught to obey 
>> and practice only what they learn in school, and they believe that 
>> they are God in the sense that what they know is law, that they know 
>> everything, and that anything that contradicts their backward 
>> knowledge is wrong, unhealthy, and harmful. Most of them give out 
>> health advice that will keep clients coming back frequently to fund 
>> their business, rather than revealing the secrets that keep you and 
>> your pet away from their money-seeking cesspools.
>> Also, most vets are anti-raw for a host of reasons that are a load of 
>> nonsense. If you're going to consult with a vet, make sure that your 
>> vet is a holistic veterinarian or a veterinary naturopath. And also 
>> make sure that you know what a proper raw diet is if you're 
>> considering it for your dog. There are still some holistic vets who 
>> advise feeding fruits, veggies, starches, and other biologically 
>> inappropriate stuff.
>> As you can tell, I have no trust in conventional veterinarians. My 
>> dog and I have been burned by the pet unhealth industry, the pet junk 
>> food industry, and the pet poison industry. If I had listened to the 
>> vet I used to take my dog to, I would have never kept him on 
>> prey-model raw, and he would still be in a state of unhealth. Educate 
>> yourself, do not just blindly listen to the advice of anyone, whether 
>> they have a degree or not. Your dog's health holds more proof and 
>> truth than anyone's educational background.
>> 
>>> On 9/12/14, The Pawpower Pack via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> I have fed a raw diet for the last 14 years.  I travel an insane 
>>> amount, and I feed raw on the road, so it can be done. I know that 
>>> there are a lot of freeze dried food I could feed but two of my dogs 
>>> died from eating what I thought were healthy treats, instead they 
>>> were made in China and killed one dog and forced the retirement of 
>>> the other.  So unless I'm dead or in prison, I don't think I can trust
any petfood company ever again.
>>> I have a small cooler bag meaneat for keeping baby bottles cool. I 
>>> keep it in my backpack.  When I stay in hotels, I either ask for a 
>>> fridge-- because I take meds that need refridgeration, which also 
>>> works for the dog's food, or I bring a little bigger sized cooler-- 
>>> about the size of a small to med sized box.  I then keep it full of ice.
>>> I actually had to feed my dog in the middle of my gate at LAX, last 
>>> month while waiting for my flight.  I'm leaving for San Fransisco 
>>> Sunday and will hit a grocery after I arrive for chicken.
>>> So it can be done, you just have to be inventive! lol Rox and the 
>>> kitchen Bitches:
>>> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
>>> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 3:25 PM, Valerie Gibson via nagdu 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> I'm kind of jumping in on the tail end of the conversation, it seems.
>>>> 
>>>> I usually don't like making food choices without consulting with a 
>>>> vet, and I try not to make food choices for others without telling 
>>>> them to first consult with their vet.
>>>> 
>>>> However...
>>>> 
>>>> I'm glad to see someone else who's against the kibble crap that's 
>>>> being fed to dogs nowadays.
>>>> 
>>>> My last akita was one that was on raw food.  He ate two pounds of 
>>>> bravo daily.  He had a lot of skin problems and a thyroid problem, 
>>>> and when switched, you could definitely tell a chnage in health.
>>>> 
>>>> Because Zion has a malobsorbtion problem, and we're stil trying to 
>>>> figure out what exactly is giving him the problem, I have not 
>>>> switched him to a raw food.
>>>> 
>>>> The only problem with raw that I can see with a guide dog is that, 
>>>> if youre out and about, you can't just whip out the food and feed 
>>>> him because it needs to stay frozen.
>>>> 
>>>> My vet recommended Honest kitchen to me because all of the 
>>>> ingredients are organic and there's no processed crap in it as with 
>>>> kibble.  Even if I am out and about, I'm sure I can find some hot water
to make it.
>>>> 
>>>> Grandma lucy's is another good food, and I believe it might fit 
>>>> most budgets. Understand though that when you're looking at food 
>>>> like this, you won't findfood that's as cheap as kibble, or i 
>>>> should say, you won't find good food like this that's as cheap as 
>>>> kibble.  I compare raw/freeze dried and kibble to stores like whole
foods verses walmart.
>>>> 
>>>> Four cups of kibble is way too much for dogs that are in the 60ish 
>>>> pounds, and don't plan to grow.  I feed my dog four cups of food a 
>>>> day, and when we've walked a lot, he eats about five or sometimes 
>>>> six.  But he's 83 pounds on last check and still growing.
>>>> In my oppinion, all dogs should get check out by a vet at least 
>>>> every year, even if you dont plan on getting them yearly 
>>>> vacsinations.  I guess I can't talk since my vet is super easy to 
>>>> get to, and I'm sure if i just wanted to go down there and weigh my 
>>>> dog, I could.  Feeling your dog's rib cage as most people have said 
>>>> is a good way to tell your dog's weight, and that's actually the 
>>>> way that is recommmended even to sighted people by trainers and vets.
>>>> 
>>>> On that note, check with your vet just to make sure it's not a 
>>>> thyroid problem or some medical health issue.  You want to be 
>>>> careful with foods that are high in protein because some dogs can't 
>>>> handle it. If that's the route you want to go, make the switch very 
>>>> gradually so that after a week, two max, your dog has made a full 
>>>> switch and no sooner.  If, after 2 weeks, your dog is having 
>>>> irritable digestion, the  food may be too high in protein.
>>>> 
>>>> Never underestimate the power of breeders.  Talk with fellow owners 
>>>> of your dog breed and even from breeders of said dog breed.  
>>>> Breeders, if they're good, often times have a wealth of informaton 
>>>> reguarding food to feed your dog.  They have to if they want good
litters.
>>>> 
>>>> Good luck.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 2:21 AM, Raven Tolliver via nagdu 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Abby,
>>>>> You know how I feel about dog food, as I'm sure most listers do. 
>>>>> Of course, I think it's time to switch your girl's food. You may 
>>>>> not be comfortable with going prey-model raw, but freeze-dried, 
>>>>> air dried, and dehydrated foods would serve your dog better than 
>>>>> the kibble. I'm guessing your girl is under 70 lbs, and that you 
>>>>> feed nearly 4 cups because she is active. If I'm right, I highly 
>>>>> recommend feeding her something more nutrient-rich and high in 
>>>>> protein. Even switching to Great Life would be better than plain 
>>>>> processed kibble from any other company.
>>>>> The best freeze-dried formulas come from Canine Naturals, but they 
>>>>> are not the most affordable for everyone. More affordable 
>>>>> freeze-dried brands are Grandma Lucy's, Stella and Chewys, and Sojo's
Complete.
>>>>> Onlynaturalpet.com, as well as chewy.com and petflow.com sell 
>>>>> these foods. For sure, feeding instructions for these brands can 
>>>>> be found on the OnlyNaturalPet site. The Honest Kitchen is a brand 
>>>>> of dehydrated dog food. I don't know any brands of air-dried food, 
>>>>> but onlynaturalpet.com sells it. If you need any help making your 
>>>>> decision, feel free to email me at Ravend729 at gmail.com.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Concerning the weight question, what is a labrador harness? I 
>>>>> don't understand why there would be a difference between a harness 
>>>>> for a labrador and a for a golden. Really, the harness should fit 
>>>>> the dog's body shape.
>>>>> And just because the dog is 5 lbs above what he weighed at the 
>>>>> school does not mean he is overweight. I was told my dog's target 
>>>>> weight was
>>>>> 66 lbs, which is at the lower end of the weight range for male 
>>>>> goldens. That was 2 years ago, and now the Golden Guy is a very 
>>>>> fit 72 lbs. There is no extra weight on this boy anywhere. The 
>>>>> dogs are certainly not done growing when we receive them, even if 
>>>>> they are 2-years-old, as my dog was. They still fill out in the 
>>>>> chest area around 3-4 years, and thus will need adjustment of the
harness strap.
>>>>> They spew bs at the schools about not needing to adjust the 
>>>>> harness strap if your dog is an adult, but that's a load.
>>>>> Also, a couple of my classmates and I have all switched our dogs 
>>>>> to raw, and we've all found that our raw-fed dogs exceed the 
>>>>> target weights prescribed by the school. None of our dogs are 
>>>>> overweight, they are all well-exercised, and very lean and 
>>>>> muscular due to their diets. So looking at my dog's medical chart, 
>>>>> you would think he is 6 lbs overweight, but if you examine his 
>>>>> body, you will see he is very fit.
>>>>> All this is to say, I would not put stock in the numbers, I would 
>>>>> put stock in how the dog looks. There should be a thin layer of 
>>>>> fat over the ribcage, and the belly should be tucked up to form a 
>>>>> definite waistline. If you can't feel the dog's ribs, especially 
>>>>> the last few near the belly, the dog is probably overweight. If 
>>>>> the dog's belly is not significantly more tucked in than the 
>>>>> chest, or if you notice the dog is more round, chances are, the dog is
overweight.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 9/11/14, Nicole Torcolini via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> What formula of Diamond Natural  are you using?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  For your friend, it really depends. Your friend should know to 
>>>>>> tell if the dog is overweight using the methods described in this
thread.
>>>>>> Dogs
>>>>>> go
>>>>>> through phases, and they are by no means done growing when we 
>>>>>> receive them.
>>>>>> A dog may be slightly overweight at one time in his/her life and, 
>>>>>> at another time, weigh more but not be overweight. If the dog is 
>>>>>> not overweight and the harness does not fit, then your friend 
>>>>>> needs to insist that the school give her a harness that fits. 
>>>>>> Alternatively, she can purchase one from somewhere else. Is this 
>>>>>> the first guide dog that your friend has had?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Nicole and Lexia
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy 
>>>>>> Carcione via nagdu
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 11:04 AM
>>>>>> To: Abigail Bolling; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association 
>>>>>> of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] weight question
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Abby.
>>>>>> 4 cups seems like a lot, but I have, and prefer, smallish dogs, 
>>>>>> around 60 pounds or less.  Ben is eating 2 cups of Canidae a day, 
>>>>>> and his predecessor Echo did the same.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have been feeding Cannidae for All Life Stages for several 
>>>>>> years, and have been happy with it.  However, in his old age, it 
>>>>>> doesn't seem to agree with Ben as well as it used to, so I am 
>>>>>> experimenting with grain-free foods, starting with Great Life 
>>>>>> Grain-free Chicken.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you search the archives for dogfood, you will find much 
>>>>>> discussion on this topic, with many opinions.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Did you explain to your friend how to check her dog's weight?
>>>>>> Sometimes,
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> teach each other more than our schools do.  The methods I learned 
>>>>>> were to see if I could feel the ribs with gentle pressure, and if 
>>>>>> the dog has a definite waist--a tucked-up belly.
>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Abigail Bolling via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 11:57 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] weight question
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all!
>>>>>>> So there are actually two questions here!
>>>>>>> Jada is on a food called Diamond Natural. She is getting almost 
>>>>>>> 4 cups of
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> food a day, and seems to be sluggish but losing weight. do you 
>>>>>>> guys think
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> it is time to switch her to a diferent food? If so, which food 
>>>>>>> should I go
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> for? I've had her on imes, and didn't like all the recalls the 
>>>>>>> food got.
>>>>>>> Purina didn't agree with her coat. and she didn't seem to have 
>>>>>>> much energy
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> when on that food.
>>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Another question is that my friend is a grad from Leader and she 
>>>>>>> has had her dog for about a year or so. Her golden is about 5 
>>>>>>> pounds overweight, but was issued with a labrador harmess, so he 
>>>>>>> is having trouble breatheing
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> while walking.
>>>>>>> Leader told her that if her dog is that much over weight that 
>>>>>>> they would take him from her.
>>>>>>> My first reaction to this prospect was that it was utterly
ridiculous.
>>>>>>> When I asked my friend what her pups target weight was, she 
>>>>>>> didn't know.
>>>>>>> When I asked her how often she physically checked his weight, 
>>>>>>> she said she
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> didn't know how.
>>>>>>> Are there any recent leader grads who ma have these same issues? 
>>>>>>> The only
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> way I was able to conclude that the dog is only five pounds over 
>>>>>>> is because my friend knew that he was 67 pounds when she got 
>>>>>>> him, and now he
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> is 72.
>>>>>>> The dog's belly strap is losened to the max, but is still way 
>>>>>>> too tight.
>>>>>>> Any way to help the dogs comfort level until a field rep can 
>>>>>>> suplly my friend with a new belly strap?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thank you all for reading my posts! :) Abby and sleepy Jada 
>>>>>>> Abigail Bolling Wright State University: Social Work
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "Keep a smile on your face and a song in your heart, and just 
>>>>>>> let the music play." (Julie Anderson Diamond) 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>> cess.net
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> m
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Raven
>>>>> "if God didn't make it, don't eat it." - John B. Symes, D.V.M.
>>>>> http://dogtorj.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> 
>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Raven
>> "if God didn't make it, don't eat it." - John B. Symes, D.V.M.
>> http://dogtorj.com
>> 
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