[nagdu] Why I decided not to owner train.

Nicole Torcolini ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Tue Sep 23 01:16:28 UTC 2014 

Although some of the health issues may have to do with guide dog programs,
JMHO, some of it does not. BC (before children), which means before the mid
80s , my mother was a vet tech. Some of the stuff that you keep hearing
about nowadays, like pancreatitis, just was not as common back then, and it
was only in certain breeds. Some of it has to do with the fact that there is
more crappy kibble. Yes, kibble is kibble, but, JMHO, some is better than
others.

Nicole and Lexia

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of L Gwizdak via
nagdu
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 5:04 PM
To: Raven Tolliver; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users; Danielle Antoine
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why I decided not to owner train.

Raven,
I totally support the people who want to owner-train their guides or pay a
private professional.  But that isn't my choice even if I wanted to.  Many
of us do not have the funds to do this.  Many of us don't have the stamina
or ability to train our own dogs.  But I sure am glad that the people on
this list who do so are an awesome group of people!

Those of us who get program dogs must make sure the schools are giving us
the best dogs they can.  I do wonder at the number of dogs put out that have
chronic ear infections, skin infections and itchies, allergies, and
sensitive tummies.  I wonder what has changed over the years.  I never heard
of this stuff until the 1980s.

Lyn who is still waiting to hear of a good match and class at TSE

"Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raven Tolliver via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "Danielle Antoine" <singingmywayin at gmail.com>; "NAGDU Mailing List,the
National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 2:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why I decided not to owner train.


>I agree with all that has been said here.
> As excited as attending GEB was, I personally would like to avoid  
>attending a program for my next dog. Whether I owner train or have my  
>successor dog privately trained will just depend on where I am in life  
>when I retire my dog years ahead. I didn't have a bad experience, just  
>an incredibly stressful one, which is a given no matter your training  
>situation.
> But I am greatly disturbed by the number of sick or sensitive dogs  
>cropping up, and I would like to avoid dealing with it the next  
>go-round. Between sensitive tummies, bowel diseases, skin and ear  
>allergies/infections, and dogs seemingly going downhill around 5 or 6,  
>I don't find any of it normal or acceptable.
> I would love to work with a naturally-reared canine. I have even  
>secured 2 natural-rearing golden retriever breeders nearby. They sell  
>their dogs for very affordable prices, and they said they would freeze  
>the price, so that if I still want one of their dogs for guide  
>training in the future, they will give me the dog for the current  
>going price. Got it in writing, of course!
> I also want my next dog to avoid the kennel environment and be trained  
>without positive punishment, and I would like to have more input in  
>the things my dog is trained to do. The first 3 months of having my  
>dog was a crash course in reversing some of the effects of being a  
>kennel dog, and also training my dog to do things he wasn't taught.
> Don't beg; don't scavenge; don't shred stuff; don't go in the garbage;  
>don't take food from people; find the chair, find the trash can, find  
>the counter; Stay put for 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, and so  
>on. Don't disobey the stay, even in the face of distraction, and being  
>by yourself isn't so horrible. And on and on. He picked up on all of  
>it very quickly, fortunately.
> Programs seem to be all for shortening the formal guide training  
>periods anyway, so I fear we're all going to be training our own dogs  
>soon. From 6 months, to 4 months, to 2 months, where does it stop?
> I am also disturbed by the age at which schools are turning dogs out.
> As someone who has trained dogs, though it was for a short 15 months,  
>I see the night-and-day difference between working with an adolescent  
>and working with an adult, and the stress it puts on a dog when people  
>expect more out of them than what they are capable of. Fortunately, I  
>attended a program that doesn't adhere to this trend.
> About the Big Brother thing, I think Nicole was saying that some  
>people, herself not included, consider the annual health/work report  
>and visits from field reps are Big Brother-esque. Yeah, I get it. GEB  
>would appreciate it if grads completed their health and work reports,  
>and even give an incentive, but I personally opt out. If people wanna  
>schedule a visit, whatever.
> I think more owner trainers and even private trainers are cropping up  
>because people are realizing that there is an alternative. Everyone  
>can't or doesn't want to attend a guide dog program for a number of  
>reasons. So if you can't, train your own, or hire someone to do it.
> And I don't encourage anyone for settling less than what they want. If  
>you want it badly enough, you will go after it and make it happen. And  
>that is what I see in the people who decide to go through the  
>painstaking process of securing and training their own dogs.
>
> On 9/21/14, Danielle Antoine via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Right on the money Vivianna. I totally agree!
>>
>>
>> On 9/21/14, debby phillips via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Nicole, with Seeing Eye, from the time I finish my training I own my 
>>> dog.  I don't have to report to the school until I'm ready for my 
>>> next dog if I don't want to.  Sometimes, or so it used to be, that 
>>> if an instructor was in your area they might call and ask if you'd 
>>> like a visit.  Even that doesn't happen anymore.  If the school gets 
>>> a call about abuse, they will then check with the graduate, 
>>> explaining that they received a call, and asking if they might be of 
>>> assistance.  If there is abuse, Seeing Eye refers the matter to 
>>> Animal Control, or whoever the authority is in the city or county 
>>> where the graduate lives.  One of the reasons I chose not to go to 
>>> GDB in the first place was I didn't want the annual report and 
>>> yearly follow up.  I want to call my school when I need their help, 
>>> not when they think I should.  But that's personal preference.  So 
>>> if you feel like that's "Big Brother" then perhaps you need to 
>>> consider whether that's where want to get your dogs.  I wouldn't go 
>>> to a school that I didn't like, or agree with, mostly.  It's too 
>>> important a decision, because I would be receiving a dog that might 
>>> be with me for the
>>> next ten years.    Peace,    Debby and Neena
>>>
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>>
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>
>
> --
> Raven
> "if God didn't make it, don't eat it." - John B. Symes, D.V.M.
> http://dogtorj.com
>
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