[nagdu] Fake Service Dogs

Julie J. julielj at neb.rr.com
Tue Aug 4 01:21:23 UTC 2015


Dan,
Oh, no!  I didn't mean to imply that you were being negative toward owner 
trainers.  It's a me thing.  I am embarrassed when  an owner trained dog is 
ill behaved.  I suppose it would be similar if a graduate of your same 
program went around letting their dog do whatever, claiming it was okay 
because it came from xyz program.   It's not okay, and the origin of the 
training makes no difference.  Still though, I want all owner trainers to be 
responsible, considerate human beings with decently behaved dogs.  It isn't 
so and I cringe every time I hear one of these stories because I feel like 
it reflects badly on me.  Trying to think of another example...maybe there's 
another blind person across town, who hasn't had the opportunity to learn 
good blindness skills.  You get compared to them because you're blind too 
and it's awkward.  Maybe that's close to what I'm talking about.  Again, it 
wasn't anything directed to you.  Your comment just made me think of it.

Julie
Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now 
available! Get the book here:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
-----Original Message----- 
From: Dan Weiner via nagdu
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 6:09 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Dan Weiner
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake Service Dogs

Actually first of all, Julie, I am in no way taking a swipe at owner trained
dogs when I asked about everyone and his brother having service dogs. I have
total respect for owner training.
Now I actually agree with Stargazer.
When I've been asked about other guide dog users, usually as in "why did
they do this or that" I tell them that they maybe should ask the person in
question about it.
I also try to make it easier for other handlers by saying things like "and
you know there are all sorts of training techniques for service dogs and
other people might not necessarily do the same things as I do."


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of larry d keeler
via nagdu
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 7:00 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: larry d keeler
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake Service Dogs

I get asked a lot as well even though I live in a slightly larger town. This
is because I do community work as well as control my dog. And, am a
approachable person, I think!

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miranda Morse via
nagdu
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 6:46 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Miranda Morse
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake Service Dogs

They are asking me because I have a service animal and they do not know
where to turn for advice. We take for granted sometimes that everyone knows
where to find the answers to questions like this. The people who approached
me where asking on behalf of business owners in the area. I live in a small
town so this is not such a standard thing and some people are not as
approachable as others.


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer via
nagdu
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 4:58 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Star Gazer
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake Service Dogs

I wouldn't either. Honestly, this sounds
like a cat fight to me.
Why Miranda are you being contacted by "other people" about this woman? I'd
just tell these people "She is an adult, you can approach her the way you
did me" and refuse to engage in further conversation on that topic.
Frankly, I'm disturbed that you haven't done so already.


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J. via
nagdu
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2015 5:15 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake Service Dogs

If it were me, I'd go with Michael's advice.  Help the businesses to
understand that they can ask if the dog is needed because of a disability
and what task/s the dog does.  If she can't answer those questions with a
yes and something that she had to have trained the dog to do, then she can
be refused entry.  I wouldn't get into any sort of disability evaluation.
If she says she has a disability, then she does, unless a judge finds
otherwise.  If the dog isn't behaved, then she can be asked to remove it.
Licking, interacting with other customers or their meal, poor grooming to
the point of being a health hazard are all grounds for the dog to leave, in
my humble opinion anyway.

I think all you can really do is to help the businesses understand their
rights.  It might help to print out that recent FAQ that the DOJ just put
out.  Business owners like to see stuff in print from an official source.  I
think it helps them accept it as legitimate and feel more confident in
following through.

There is a lady here, in my town, who has a dog for her psychiatric
condition.  I've run across her twice.  the first time in a restaurant,
where the dog was standing at the end of it's leash in the middle of the
aisle.  the second time was just a few weeks ago in Wal-Mart.  I had Monty
with me.  Apparently her dog was at the end of his leash, trying for all he
was worth to get to Monty.  I didn't realize there was another dog, until my

son told me in the next aisle.   We went on about our shopping and didn't
encounter her in the store again.  I suspect she was making an effort to
keep her dog away.  Personally, I'm not enthused with her dog's behavior,
but neither do I think it's so horrendous that she should be asked to leave.

My dogs aren't perfect and I'd hope that I'd get the same sort of
compassion.

Julie
Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now
available! Get the book here:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
-----Original Message-----
From: Miranda Morse via nagdu
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 3:45 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Miranda Morse
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake Service Dogs

The woman says that she trained the dog herself and many people who know her
claim that the dog is not a service animal. Many are even skeptical about
whether she has PTSD. Needless to say this woman's reputation and past is
not the most desirable.
The dog barks in public, licks people's glasses, begs for food and licks
merchandise in stores. The dog also smells and has fleas or some type of
allergy that makes him scratch constantly.


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of larry d keeler
via nagdu
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 3:35 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: larry d keeler
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake Service Dogs

What I have observed is that yes, it probably is a service dog. Having said
that however, I have met lots of people with ptsd who for some reason don't
require the dogs to behave!

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miranda Morse via
nagdu
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 4:18 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Miranda Morse
Subject: [nagdu] Fake Service Dogs

Hello, In the last week I have been approached by two different individuals
at different times about a woman in town who has PTSD and has a service dog.
Their claims are that it is a fake service animal because of the way it acts
in public. It is a great dane and I have seen it in public before and I
would tend to agree.

I would appreciate any suggestions on how to address this matter?

Miranda

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