[nagdu] Walking in new territory

Wed Aug 5 22:25:34 UTC 2015

				Very interesting Buddy. 
When I got my dogs, both from Leader what I remember is that the dogs were a
fail safe that they'd catch it if the human, either the handler or the
driver made an error. That never made sense to me. 
How did Seeing Eye say traffic training could be undone? Write me off list
if you'd like.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy Brannan via
nagdu
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2015 4:35 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Walking in new territory

I really don't know why they don't mention it. Is it because they haven't
done the research? Is it because "it's just not that important"? No idea. No
one else has told me that their school mentioned anything of the kind, and I
know when I got Karl from GDB in 1996, they never mentioned it. About all we
got on traffic was "Oh, your dog will watch for traffic and check you if
there is any, either by stopping, slowing, or backing up". OK, that's great.
Then we had a day devoted to set up traffic checks. At Seeing Eye, traffic
was integral to the whole experience, and we had set up checks starting on
the second day of training and continuing throughout. Along with a very
thorough traffic seminar, including the above mentioned traffic judging
limitations and stresses on how traffic training can easily be undone and so
on. 

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: buddy at brannan.name

> On Aug 4, 2015, at 4:29 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> 				Exactly Buddy. I've used the physics
> argument many times and people just look blank like they expect that it
will
> somehow be different because they want it to be. 
> Why don't other schools mention the 30 miles per hour and dogs reliably
> judging traffic?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy Brannan
via
> nagdu
> Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2015 10:17 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Walking in new territory
> 
> Bloody hell! There are some times where it's just not safe to walk with
> cane, dog, or working eyeballs, and I think your whole route, both ways,
> sounds like just such a time. Suck it up and call a cab. 
> 
> Remember, too, that our dogs can't reliably judge traffic over about 30
MPH.
> As far as I know, none of the schools, apart from the Seeing Eye, which
has
> the most comprehensive traffic training out, and by extension, the most
> comprehensive traffic lectures out, will tell you this. To put this into
> perspective, at 30 miles an hour, a car takes maybe two seconds to travel
> 200 feet. Something like that, I'd have to review said traffic lecture.
> Point is, a pretty damned far piece, for a pedestrian, in a really really
> short amount of time. You canna' change the laws of physics, laws of
> physics, Jim! Speaking of which, physics always wins. You, the pedestrian,
> will always lose, in a contest with a truck. 
> 
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194 
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: buddy at brannan.name
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 2, 2015, at 10:01 PM, Lori Dent via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Rick and I were talking about Gipp and me  walking from my grandmother's
> house to Wal Mart. When I leave my grandmother's house in her allotment
it's
> about a four block walk with no sidewalks to get to  the closest main
> street, route 43.  When I come out to route 43 there's no safe way to
cross
> the street.  Traffic from my left is just coming over a hill. I would have
> to turn right and walk , with traffic, for about a half mile to get to the
> first major intersection  which is route 18.  In fact that's the first
> street. 
>> 
>> Once  I come up to route 18 and  route 43 it's a light controlled
> intersection. I would need to turn left to cross over route 43. Once Gipp
> and I cross over route 43 we  will be walking down route 18 against
traffic
> without any sidewalks for about a mile and a half, maybe 2 miles. 
>> 
>> About a quarter mile  before I get to Wal Mart it starts to get
> interesting. I first have to cross an exit from interstate 76.  luckily
it's
> light controlled. A little further on we have an entrance to interstate 76
.
> Again light controlled. The last little bit I have to cross  is a business
> area that has a bunch of small shops and three or four graveled entrances.
> Then I come up  to the entrance to the Wall Mart lot. Then I turn left.
Not
> one sidewalk the entire time. 
>> 
>> Walking back to my grandmother's house from Wal Mart   I will have to
walk
> with traffic on route 18. Rick explained to me why it would be extremely
> unsafe to cross  route 18  and walk against traffic. First it would be
> crossing route 18 in front of Wal Mart. Even though there's a light there
> are no markings  to cross. But that's not the hard part. About a quarter
> mile up I would have to cross an exit from interstate 76 and Mogadore
Road.
> Traffic coming off of Mogadore Road and I-76 will enter route 18 at about
a
> 45 degree angle.  Traffic moves very fast there, there's no markings to
> cross and no light. It's extremely unsafe and Rick said he wouldn't try to
> cross it and he's sighted. 
>> 
>> Rick says there might be a way to cross. This is going to be hard to
> explain so bare with me. I could stay on the exit from I-76 facing
traffic,
> for about 200 feet. There is a traffic light at that point. It would be
very
> difficult to work with traffic .  Whether or not traffic from I-76 has a
red
> light traffic from Mogadore Road is making continuous right hand turns.
The
> drivers are watching the I-76 traffic to see if they can beat somebody
out.
> They never look to the right. 
>> 
>> Providing   I can cross  at this light I would walk about 50 feet, with
> traffic, so that I can cross at the next light. Traffic coming through
this
> light is either coming straight from Mogadore Road or making a left turn
> from I-76. Turning traffic could be coming down the ramp at least 40 miles
> per hour and would not be able to see me until they made the turn  with no
> time to stop. 
>> 
>> Because of this one area Rick thinks it would be safer to walk home with
> traffic. 
>> 
>> I've talked to Rick about maybe having a trainer come out and look at
this
> area  to see what he or she thinks. do you think I should ask for a
trainer
> to come out or go by what Rick suggested?
>> 
>> Lori and the Gipper
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