[nagdu] Walking in new territory

Buddy Brannan buddy at brannan.name
Wed Aug 5 23:26:18 UTC 2015 

Hi,

I may need to review the lecture, but basically, things like overriding your dog's reactions by, for example, pushing forward on the harness handle. Admittedly, it's been a while since I've listened to the traffic lecture. 

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: buddy at brannan.name




> On Aug 5, 2015, at 6:25 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> 				Very interesting Buddy. 
> When I got my dogs, both from Leader what I remember is that the dogs were a
> fail safe that they'd catch it if the human, either the handler or the
> driver made an error. That never made sense to me. 
> How did Seeing Eye say traffic training could be undone? Write me off list
> if you'd like.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy Brannan via
> nagdu
> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2015 4:35 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Walking in new territory
> 
> I really don't know why they don't mention it. Is it because they haven't
> done the research? Is it because "it's just not that important"? No idea. No
> one else has told me that their school mentioned anything of the kind, and I
> know when I got Karl from GDB in 1996, they never mentioned it. About all we
> got on traffic was "Oh, your dog will watch for traffic and check you if
> there is any, either by stopping, slowing, or backing up". OK, that's great.
> Then we had a day devoted to set up traffic checks. At Seeing Eye, traffic
> was integral to the whole experience, and we had set up checks starting on
> the second day of training and continuing throughout. Along with a very
> thorough traffic seminar, including the above mentioned traffic judging
> limitations and stresses on how traffic training can easily be undone and so
> on. 
> 
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194 
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: buddy at brannan.name
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 4, 2015, at 4:29 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 				Exactly Buddy. I've used the physics
>> argument many times and people just look blank like they expect that it
> will
>> somehow be different because they want it to be. 
>> Why don't other schools mention the 30 miles per hour and dogs reliably
>> judging traffic?
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy Brannan
> via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2015 10:17 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Walking in new territory
>> 
>> Bloody hell! There are some times where it's just not safe to walk with
>> cane, dog, or working eyeballs, and I think your whole route, both ways,
>> sounds like just such a time. Suck it up and call a cab. 
>> 
>> Remember, too, that our dogs can't reliably judge traffic over about 30
> MPH.
>> As far as I know, none of the schools, apart from the Seeing Eye, which
> has
>> the most comprehensive traffic training out, and by extension, the most
>> comprehensive traffic lectures out, will tell you this. To put this into
>> perspective, at 30 miles an hour, a car takes maybe two seconds to travel
>> 200 feet. Something like that, I'd have to review said traffic lecture.
>> Point is, a pretty damned far piece, for a pedestrian, in a really really
>> short amount of time. You canna' change the laws of physics, laws of
>> physics, Jim! Speaking of which, physics always wins. You, the pedestrian,
>> will always lose, in a contest with a truck. 
>> 
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: 814-860-3194 
>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 2, 2015, at 10:01 PM, Lori Dent via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Rick and I were talking about Gipp and me  walking from my grandmother's
>> house to Wal Mart. When I leave my grandmother's house in her allotment
> it's
>> about a four block walk with no sidewalks to get to  the closest main
>> street, route 43.  When I come out to route 43 there's no safe way to
> cross
>> the street.  Traffic from my left is just coming over a hill. I would have
>> to turn right and walk , with traffic, for about a half mile to get to the
>> first major intersection  which is route 18.  In fact that's the first
>> street. 
>>> 
>>> Once  I come up to route 18 and  route 43 it's a light controlled
>> intersection. I would need to turn left to cross over route 43. Once Gipp
>> and I cross over route 43 we  will be walking down route 18 against
> traffic
>> without any sidewalks for about a mile and a half, maybe 2 miles. 
>>> 
>>> About a quarter mile  before I get to Wal Mart it starts to get
>> interesting. I first have to cross an exit from interstate 76.  luckily
> it's
>> light controlled. A little further on we have an entrance to interstate 76
> .
>> Again light controlled. The last little bit I have to cross  is a business
>> area that has a bunch of small shops and three or four graveled entrances.
>> Then I come up  to the entrance to the Wall Mart lot. Then I turn left.
> Not
>> one sidewalk the entire time. 
>>> 
>>> Walking back to my grandmother's house from Wal Mart   I will have to
> walk
>> with traffic on route 18. Rick explained to me why it would be extremely
>> unsafe to cross  route 18  and walk against traffic. First it would be
>> crossing route 18 in front of Wal Mart. Even though there's a light there
>> are no markings  to cross. But that's not the hard part. About a quarter
>> mile up I would have to cross an exit from interstate 76 and Mogadore
> Road.
>> Traffic coming off of Mogadore Road and I-76 will enter route 18 at about
> a
>> 45 degree angle.  Traffic moves very fast there, there's no markings to
>> cross and no light. It's extremely unsafe and Rick said he wouldn't try to
>> cross it and he's sighted. 
>>> 
>>> Rick says there might be a way to cross. This is going to be hard to
>> explain so bare with me. I could stay on the exit from I-76 facing
> traffic,
>> for about 200 feet. There is a traffic light at that point. It would be
> very
>> difficult to work with traffic .  Whether or not traffic from I-76 has a
> red
>> light traffic from Mogadore Road is making continuous right hand turns.
> The
>> drivers are watching the I-76 traffic to see if they can beat somebody
> out.
>> They never look to the right. 
>>> 
>>> Providing   I can cross  at this light I would walk about 50 feet, with
>> traffic, so that I can cross at the next light. Traffic coming through
> this
>> light is either coming straight from Mogadore Road or making a left turn
>> from I-76. Turning traffic could be coming down the ramp at least 40 miles
>> per hour and would not be able to see me until they made the turn  with no
>> time to stop. 
>>> 
>>> Because of this one area Rick thinks it would be safer to walk home with
>> traffic. 
>>> 
>>> I've talked to Rick about maybe having a trainer come out and look at
> this
>> area  to see what he or she thinks. do you think I should ask for a
> trainer
>> to come out or go by what Rick suggested?
>>> 
>>> Lori and the Gipper
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>> 
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