[nagdu] Undoing traffic training
Debby Phillips
semisweetdebby at gmail.com
Fri Aug 7 01:56:12 UTC 2015
Tracy, I can relate to the spouse impatience. And stopping me before Nova has a chance to react to a car coming out of an alley...
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 6, 2015, at 6:12 AM, Tracy Carcione via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> I remember this lecture pretty well. It made a big impression on me. Lukas
> also discussed undoing traffic training at a NAGDU meeting at convention
> some time back.
>
> Ways to undo traffic training:
> Cue the dog to go by pushing with the harness, moving as you say forward, or
> some such. You may not even realize you're doing it.
>
> Tell the dog to go when you hear a car coming, because you know you have the
> light and you assume the car will stop.
> This is something I always worry about. There's only so much time to get
> across, and, if I wait for the guy cruising up to the light to stop, I'll
> have to wait another cycle, and hope some other guy doesn't do the same
> thing. On the other hand, I don't really know for sure the idiot won't run
> the light, and I don't want to teach my dog it's fine to walk in front of a
> moving car.
> It also makes my husband crazy. We have the light, or the stop sign, but I
> don't go because I hear someone coming, and he gets all impatient. He knows
> the reasons, but he still grumbles and grits his teeth.
>
> There may be other ways to undo traffic training, but these are the ones I
> remember.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy Brannan via
> nagdu
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 7:26 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Buddy Brannan
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Walking in new territory
>
> Hi,
>
> I may need to review the lecture, but basically, things like overriding your
> dog's reactions by, for example, pushing forward on the harness handle.
> Admittedly, it's been a while since I've listened to the traffic lecture.
>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>
>
>
>
>> On Aug 5, 2015, at 6:25 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Very interesting Buddy.
>> When I got my dogs, both from Leader what I remember is that the dogs were
> a
>> fail safe that they'd catch it if the human, either the handler or the
>> driver made an error. That never made sense to me.
>> How did Seeing Eye say traffic training could be undone? Write me off list
>> if you'd like.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy Brannan
> via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2015 4:35 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Walking in new territory
>>
>> I really don't know why they don't mention it. Is it because they haven't
>> done the research? Is it because "it's just not that important"? No idea.
> No
>> one else has told me that their school mentioned anything of the kind, and
> I
>> know when I got Karl from GDB in 1996, they never mentioned it. About all
> we
>> got on traffic was "Oh, your dog will watch for traffic and check you if
>> there is any, either by stopping, slowing, or backing up". OK, that's
> great.
>> Then we had a day devoted to set up traffic checks. At Seeing Eye, traffic
>> was integral to the whole experience, and we had set up checks starting on
>> the second day of training and continuing throughout. Along with a very
>> thorough traffic seminar, including the above mentioned traffic judging
>> limitations and stresses on how traffic training can easily be undone and
> so
>> on.
>>
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 4, 2015, at 4:29 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> Exactly Buddy. I've used the physics
>>> argument many times and people just look blank like they expect that it
>> will
>>> somehow be different because they want it to be.
>>> Why don't other schools mention the 30 miles per hour and dogs reliably
>>> judging traffic?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy Brannan
>> via
>>> nagdu
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2015 10:17 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Walking in new territory
>>>
>>> Bloody hell! There are some times where it's just not safe to walk with
>>> cane, dog, or working eyeballs, and I think your whole route, both ways,
>>> sounds like just such a time. Suck it up and call a cab.
>>>
>>> Remember, too, that our dogs can't reliably judge traffic over about 30
>> MPH.
>>> As far as I know, none of the schools, apart from the Seeing Eye, which
>> has
>>> the most comprehensive traffic training out, and by extension, the most
>>> comprehensive traffic lectures out, will tell you this. To put this into
>>> perspective, at 30 miles an hour, a car takes maybe two seconds to travel
>>> 200 feet. Something like that, I'd have to review said traffic lecture.
>>> Point is, a pretty damned far piece, for a pedestrian, in a really really
>>> short amount of time. You canna' change the laws of physics, laws of
>>> physics, Jim! Speaking of which, physics always wins. You, the
> pedestrian,
>>> will always lose, in a contest with a truck.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>>> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Aug 2, 2015, at 10:01 PM, Lori Dent via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Rick and I were talking about Gipp and me walking from my grandmother's
>>> house to Wal Mart. When I leave my grandmother's house in her allotment
>> it's
>>> about a four block walk with no sidewalks to get to the closest main
>>> street, route 43. When I come out to route 43 there's no safe way to
>> cross
>>> the street. Traffic from my left is just coming over a hill. I would
> have
>>> to turn right and walk , with traffic, for about a half mile to get to
> the
>>> first major intersection which is route 18. In fact that's the first
>>> street.
>>>>
>>>> Once I come up to route 18 and route 43 it's a light controlled
>>> intersection. I would need to turn left to cross over route 43. Once Gipp
>>> and I cross over route 43 we will be walking down route 18 against
>> traffic
>>> without any sidewalks for about a mile and a half, maybe 2 miles.
>>>>
>>>> About a quarter mile before I get to Wal Mart it starts to get
>>> interesting. I first have to cross an exit from interstate 76. luckily
>> it's
>>> light controlled. A little further on we have an entrance to interstate
> 76
>> .
>>> Again light controlled. The last little bit I have to cross is a
> business
>>> area that has a bunch of small shops and three or four graveled
> entrances.
>>> Then I come up to the entrance to the Wall Mart lot. Then I turn left.
>> Not
>>> one sidewalk the entire time.
>>>>
>>>> Walking back to my grandmother's house from Wal Mart I will have to
>> walk
>>> with traffic on route 18. Rick explained to me why it would be extremely
>>> unsafe to cross route 18 and walk against traffic. First it would be
>>> crossing route 18 in front of Wal Mart. Even though there's a light there
>>> are no markings to cross. But that's not the hard part. About a quarter
>>> mile up I would have to cross an exit from interstate 76 and Mogadore
>> Road.
>>> Traffic coming off of Mogadore Road and I-76 will enter route 18 at about
>> a
>>> 45 degree angle. Traffic moves very fast there, there's no markings to
>>> cross and no light. It's extremely unsafe and Rick said he wouldn't try
> to
>>> cross it and he's sighted.
>>>>
>>>> Rick says there might be a way to cross. This is going to be hard to
>>> explain so bare with me. I could stay on the exit from I-76 facing
>> traffic,
>>> for about 200 feet. There is a traffic light at that point. It would be
>> very
>>> difficult to work with traffic . Whether or not traffic from I-76 has a
>> red
>>> light traffic from Mogadore Road is making continuous right hand turns.
>> The
>>> drivers are watching the I-76 traffic to see if they can beat somebody
>> out.
>>> They never look to the right.
>>>>
>>>> Providing I can cross at this light I would walk about 50 feet, with
>>> traffic, so that I can cross at the next light. Traffic coming through
>> this
>>> light is either coming straight from Mogadore Road or making a left turn
>>> from I-76. Turning traffic could be coming down the ramp at least 40
> miles
>>> per hour and would not be able to see me until they made the turn with
> no
>>> time to stop.
>>>>
>>>> Because of this one area Rick thinks it would be safer to walk home with
>>> traffic.
>>>>
>>>> I've talked to Rick about maybe having a trainer come out and look at
>> this
>>> area to see what he or she thinks. do you think I should ask for a
>> trainer
>>> to come out or go by what Rick suggested?
>>>>
>>>> Lori and the Gipper
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