[nagdu] Any tips for us?

Fri Aug 28 01:44:39 UTC 2015

Raven, great topic. I read through the LDB IFT manual that you shared with us, and I found that intriguing. I'm curious to know now How similar various schools are similar in this aspect.
Thanks again for bringing this topic up. :-)  

Ashley Coleman, 

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 18:44, Raven Tolliver via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> You gals bring up some great points. I will include things about
> impulse control as well. It seems weird to bring it up when the pup is
> so young, but better to have it in the back of their minds than to
> have them not think about it at all.
> 
> I don't know the ins and outs of puppy-raising, but I know that
> different puppy counselors encourage and allow, and discourage
> different training methods and management tools. For instance, some
> counselors have their raisers focus more on separation anxiety than
> others, some counselors work hard with dog distractions, etc.
> 
> I have attended several puppy outings. I was sitting at a restaurant
> with a group of raisers, and one of the raisers decided to come but
> had left her pup at home. To my horror, another raiser said: "I never
> leave my puppy at home alone." The dog was nine months old, which
> meant it would be turned in for training in a couple months. Everyone
> was silent for a moment, and the woman without her puppy politely
> explained why it is essential for the puppies to be left alone
> sometimes.
> 
> Tracy, I understand your frustration. I think crate-training is
> sometimes abused like other training tools, such as treats or
> correction collars. People use them too much or inappropriately, and
> end up turning out a dog that can't control themselves without those
> tools. And it is annoying.
> 
> I wonder if it has something to do with how much experience a person
> has with raising pups. Are newer puppy-raisers more likely to keep
> their dogs crated when home alone as opposed to the ol'-timers? It's
> something to think about.
> 
> I'm not sure how much of an understanding puppy-raisers have of
> expectations for guide dogs. There are in-for-training standards,
> which simply inform raisers of standards their pups should meet in
> order to be turned in for guide training. But those standards are not
> comprehensive. Specifically, the IFT test covers what is expected of a
> dog actively working in-harness. However, the standards don't assess a
> dog's house manners, or how a dog manages during down time at home or
> in public when the only things to do are people-watch, sleep, and
> simply mind their own business.
> In relation to house manners, all the puppy counselor and LDB reps
> have to go off are the puppy-raisers word and the things they observe
> during gatherings and meetings.
> I'm not sure if all the schools' IFT standards are this way, but LDB's
> definitely are.
> It would be nice if maybe part of the IFT test was having your pup
> stay in a puppy counselor's home. I know that puppy-raisers are
> required by some schools to keep another dog for a week while their
> pup stays with another raiser. But I'm not sure if this is required by
> all schools. Also, a counselor might have a more objective perspective
> than a fellow raiser.
> 
> For those who are curious, the LDB IFT standards are attached so that
> you have a better idea of what I'm talking about.
> -- 
> Raven
> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
> www.1am-editing.com
> 
> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you
> have or what you do.
> 
> Naturally-reared guide dogs
> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
> 
>> On 8/26/15, Danielle Sykora via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I'm not sure exactly how to put my thoughts into words, but I think it
>> is important for puppy raisers to always remember to consider how the
>> behavior of the puppy will effect it's working life. I know puppy
>> raisers are given a lot of information on what to teach the pups and
>> how to teach it, but I'm not sure they always understand why it is so
>> important.
>> 
>> When used properly, crate training should not create an impulsive dog.
>> Yes, the puppy should be put in the crate when it isn't supervised
>> while it's young, especially before it is house broken, but the puppy
>> should spend less and less time in the crate as it gets older. I have
>> a dog who doesn't have the best house behavior, but I really don't
>> think crate training as a puppy made much difference. It's just the
>> kind of dog he is, curious, a little impulsive, persistent, energetic,
>> and intelligent all combining to make him a hand full at times. Many
>> of those qualities though make him a good worker, so I deal with it.
>> 
>> Danielle and Thai
>> 
>>> On 8/26/15, Tracy Carcione via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> I totally agree with Julie J.
>>> Under self-control, I would add that the dog should be able to be in
>>> another room, unconfined and unsupervised, without getting into mischief.
>>> I wouldn't expect that of a young puppy, but, by the time the dog is
>>> ready
>>> to go back to the school, I should be able to be in the kitchen while the
>>> dog is in the living room without worrying about what he's up to.
>>> 
>>> I think this may be being lost with "crate training", which seems to be
>>> translated to "If I can't watch the puppy, I'll just put him in the
>>> crate."  And so the puppy doesn't learn how to control himself when not
>>> confined or supervised.
>>> I've had Krokus for about 10 months, and it's only the last 2 or 3 that I
>>> feel comfortable leaving him unsupervised when I go out in the yard or
>>> whatever.  He's had a lot more trouble with self-control than any dog
>>> I've
>>> ever had, and I'm not too pleased about it.
>>> Tracy
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> I think there are two goals that puppies need to achieve in order to be
>>>> successful guides:
>>>> 1. self control
>>>> 2. the ability to cope with boredom
>>>> 
>>>> If a dog understands that good things come to those who wait, then I can
>>>> teach or reinforce most any behavior.   If the dog understands that some
>>>> things are off limits, always, and accepts that, then it won't become a
>>>> power struggle.  If a dog can pass up tempting opportunities, then we
>>>> will
>>>> both be happier.  If a dog doesn't have to be entertained every moment
>>>> of
>>>> every day, then I can more freely live my life, doing the things I need
>>>> to
>>>> do.   Or if the dog will play with toys or watch the cat or engage in
>>>> whatever amusement he likes, without needing me to facilitate it, then
>>>> life
>>>> is good.
>>>> 
>>>> I think everything else is a product of these two core traits.  It sets
>>>> the
>>>> foundation for all future success.  I simply don't care about a perfect
>>>> sit.
>>>> If my dog chooses to lie down instead, fine.  what I want is for him to
>>>> mind
>>>> his own business and be unobtrusive, however he chooses to achieve that
>>>> is
>>>> acceptable to me.
>>>> 
>>>> Julie
>>>> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now
>>>> available! Get the book here:
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Raven Tolliver via nagdu
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 7:41 AM
>>>> To: nagdu
>>>> Cc: Raven Tolliver
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Any tips for us?
>>>> 
>>>> I get this question a lot from puppy-raisers, especially those who are
>>>> about to raise their first dog, and the ones who haven't had a dog
>>>> graduate.
>>>> Obviously, there's a handful of tips in the huge packet of paperwork I
>>>> have to go over with the raisers. Remember that your puppy is on the
>>>> ground and will go after objects on the floor. Watch your pup outside
>>>> to prevent him from picking up rocks and sticks. Patience, practice,
>>>> praise. And so on.
>>>> And of course, their puppy counselors and raiser groups will be there
>>>> for them whenever they need.
>>>> But I think the raisers still look for some overarching, comprehensive
>>>> advice to keep in mind at all times.
>>>> 
>>>> So off the record, this is the advice I give them.
>>>> Be strict. More specifically, have an expectation for your dog at all
>>>> times. When young dogs are not sleeping or eating, they're looking for
>>>> something to do, so give them something to do or somewhere to be.
>>>> Reward the dog for performing that behavior or being in that place if
>>>> it is not self-rewarding.
>>>> 
>>>> An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Avoid problem
>>>> behaviors by preventing them. Once a behavior is a problem, it is
>>>> harder to eliminate since the dog finds it rewarding, and you now have
>>>> to make an alternative behavior more rewarding than the problem
>>>> behavior. Problem behaviors include alert barking, pulling on leash,
>>>> inappropriate chewing, counter-surfing, scavenging in the garbage,
>>>> scavenging in public, etc.
>>>> 
>>>> What do you guys think of this advice? Furthermore, what other advice
>>>> would be valuable to share?
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> --
>>>> Raven
>>>> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
>>>> www.1am-editing.com
>>>> 
>>>> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you
>>>> have or what you do.
>>>> 
>>>> Naturally-reared guide dogs
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
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