[nagdu] Any tips for us?

Raven Tolliver ravend729 at gmail.com
Thu Aug 27 22:44:39 UTC 2015


You gals bring up some great points. I will include things about
impulse control as well. It seems weird to bring it up when the pup is
so young, but better to have it in the back of their minds than to
have them not think about it at all.

I don't know the ins and outs of puppy-raising, but I know that
different puppy counselors encourage and allow, and discourage
different training methods and management tools. For instance, some
counselors have their raisers focus more on separation anxiety than
others, some counselors work hard with dog distractions, etc.

I have attended several puppy outings. I was sitting at a restaurant
with a group of raisers, and one of the raisers decided to come but
had left her pup at home. To my horror, another raiser said: "I never
leave my puppy at home alone." The dog was nine months old, which
meant it would be turned in for training in a couple months. Everyone
was silent for a moment, and the woman without her puppy politely
explained why it is essential for the puppies to be left alone
sometimes.

Tracy, I understand your frustration. I think crate-training is
sometimes abused like other training tools, such as treats or
correction collars. People use them too much or inappropriately, and
end up turning out a dog that can't control themselves without those
tools. And it is annoying.

I wonder if it has something to do with how much experience a person
has with raising pups. Are newer puppy-raisers more likely to keep
their dogs crated when home alone as opposed to the ol'-timers? It's
something to think about.

I'm not sure how much of an understanding puppy-raisers have of
expectations for guide dogs. There are in-for-training standards,
which simply inform raisers of standards their pups should meet in
order to be turned in for guide training. But those standards are not
comprehensive. Specifically, the IFT test covers what is expected of a
dog actively working in-harness. However, the standards don't assess a
dog's house manners, or how a dog manages during down time at home or
in public when the only things to do are people-watch, sleep, and
simply mind their own business.
In relation to house manners, all the puppy counselor and LDB reps
have to go off are the puppy-raisers word and the things they observe
during gatherings and meetings.
I'm not sure if all the schools' IFT standards are this way, but LDB's
definitely are.
It would be nice if maybe part of the IFT test was having your pup
stay in a puppy counselor's home. I know that puppy-raisers are
required by some schools to keep another dog for a week while their
pup stays with another raiser. But I'm not sure if this is required by
all schools. Also, a counselor might have a more objective perspective
than a fellow raiser.

For those who are curious, the LDB IFT standards are attached so that
you have a better idea of what I'm talking about.
-- 
Raven
Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
www.1am-editing.com

You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you
have or what you do.

Naturally-reared guide dogs
https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs

On 8/26/15, Danielle Sykora via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I'm not sure exactly how to put my thoughts into words, but I think it
> is important for puppy raisers to always remember to consider how the
> behavior of the puppy will effect it's working life. I know puppy
> raisers are given a lot of information on what to teach the pups and
> how to teach it, but I'm not sure they always understand why it is so
> important.
>
> When used properly, crate training should not create an impulsive dog.
> Yes, the puppy should be put in the crate when it isn't supervised
> while it's young, especially before it is house broken, but the puppy
> should spend less and less time in the crate as it gets older. I have
> a dog who doesn't have the best house behavior, but I really don't
> think crate training as a puppy made much difference. It's just the
> kind of dog he is, curious, a little impulsive, persistent, energetic,
> and intelligent all combining to make him a hand full at times. Many
> of those qualities though make him a good worker, so I deal with it.
>
> Danielle and Thai
>
> On 8/26/15, Tracy Carcione via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I totally agree with Julie J.
>> Under self-control, I would add that the dog should be able to be in
>> another room, unconfined and unsupervised, without getting into mischief.
>> I wouldn't expect that of a young puppy, but, by the time the dog is
>> ready
>> to go back to the school, I should be able to be in the kitchen while the
>> dog is in the living room without worrying about what he's up to.
>>
>> I think this may be being lost with "crate training", which seems to be
>> translated to "If I can't watch the puppy, I'll just put him in the
>> crate."  And so the puppy doesn't learn how to control himself when not
>> confined or supervised.
>> I've had Krokus for about 10 months, and it's only the last 2 or 3 that I
>> feel comfortable leaving him unsupervised when I go out in the yard or
>> whatever.  He's had a lot more trouble with self-control than any dog
>> I've
>> ever had, and I'm not too pleased about it.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>> I think there are two goals that puppies need to achieve in order to be
>>> successful guides:
>>> 1. self control
>>> 2. the ability to cope with boredom
>>>
>>> If a dog understands that good things come to those who wait, then I can
>>> teach or reinforce most any behavior.   If the dog understands that some
>>> things are off limits, always, and accepts that, then it won't become a
>>> power struggle.  If a dog can pass up tempting opportunities, then we
>>> will
>>> both be happier.  If a dog doesn't have to be entertained every moment
>>> of
>>> every day, then I can more freely live my life, doing the things I need
>>> to
>>> do.   Or if the dog will play with toys or watch the cat or engage in
>>> whatever amusement he likes, without needing me to facilitate it, then
>>> life
>>> is good.
>>>
>>> I think everything else is a product of these two core traits.  It sets
>>> the
>>> foundation for all future success.  I simply don't care about a perfect
>>> sit.
>>> If my dog chooses to lie down instead, fine.  what I want is for him to
>>> mind
>>> his own business and be unobtrusive, however he chooses to achieve that
>>> is
>>> acceptable to me.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now
>>> available! Get the book here:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Raven Tolliver via nagdu
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 7:41 AM
>>> To: nagdu
>>> Cc: Raven Tolliver
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Any tips for us?
>>>
>>> I get this question a lot from puppy-raisers, especially those who are
>>> about to raise their first dog, and the ones who haven't had a dog
>>> graduate.
>>> Obviously, there's a handful of tips in the huge packet of paperwork I
>>> have to go over with the raisers. Remember that your puppy is on the
>>> ground and will go after objects on the floor. Watch your pup outside
>>> to prevent him from picking up rocks and sticks. Patience, practice,
>>> praise. And so on.
>>> And of course, their puppy counselors and raiser groups will be there
>>> for them whenever they need.
>>> But I think the raisers still look for some overarching, comprehensive
>>> advice to keep in mind at all times.
>>>
>>> So off the record, this is the advice I give them.
>>> Be strict. More specifically, have an expectation for your dog at all
>>> times. When young dogs are not sleeping or eating, they're looking for
>>> something to do, so give them something to do or somewhere to be.
>>> Reward the dog for performing that behavior or being in that place if
>>> it is not self-rewarding.
>>>
>>> An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Avoid problem
>>> behaviors by preventing them. Once a behavior is a problem, it is
>>> harder to eliminate since the dog finds it rewarding, and you now have
>>> to make an alternative behavior more rewarding than the problem
>>> behavior. Problem behaviors include alert barking, pulling on leash,
>>> inappropriate chewing, counter-surfing, scavenging in the garbage,
>>> scavenging in public, etc.
>>>
>>> What do you guys think of this advice? Furthermore, what other advice
>>> would be valuable to share?
>>> Thanks.
>>> --
>>> Raven
>>> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
>>> www.1am-editing.com
>>>
>>> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you
>>> have or what you do.
>>>
>>> Naturally-reared guide dogs
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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