[nagdu] Guides at NFB training centers

Sun Aug 30 13:26:32 UTC 2015

So we need to make completely new training centers because of the
questionable policies towards service animals  by the NFB centers?

If there wee an attitude like this about guide dogs anywhere else NAGDU
would oppose it but because it's our NFB centers we are supposed to support
it lock stock and barril, no thank you.
Well I suppose it could be worse.
When I looked in to the Louisiana Center in 1995 I was told bluntly that the
dog wouldn't enter the premices that your dog would stay in your apartment.

You would do better to tell guide dog users just not to come to your centers
but   then the centers would be expposed to justifiable Ada complaints I
imagine, , so you're not doing that any more I suppose.

Cordially,
Dan W.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews via
nagdu
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2015 10:33 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: David Andrews
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guides at NFB training centers

Raymond:

What I am about to say probably won't go over well here.  Nevertheless, I
hope people will think about what I say.

Our three training centers and some others, teach skills of blindness, like
travel, Braille and Technology, but they also teach us how to accept our
blindness, how to prosper in a sighted world and other attitude-related
factors.  I think it was Jim Omvig who said they are "attitude factories."
>From my time at the New Mexico Commission for the Blind, and working near
BLIND Inc., for over 20 years, I would say this is true.

Part of how they do this is through travel with a cane.  People are moved to
using a cane, having it at all times, accepting it, being proud of it etc.
For most people this is where the rubber meets the road in terms of
adjustment to blindness.

Our Centers are simply not just teaching skills and the cane is an integral
part of the process.

Now, could it also be done with a dog guide.  I don't know -- I am not a dog
user, so wouldn't presume to say. I would think it might be harder because
you are using the dog to make some decisions that a cane user makes.  Also,
the public has different attitudes about dogs and canes, so don't know what
a difference this would make.

Anyway, our current centers do what they do in part through the cane.  Let
them do what they do well.

It seems to me that the service animal crowd should come together and design
a training center that does good things using a dog.
People have complained about our Centers and dogs for as long as we have had
centers, and these lists.  Do something about it!

Dave

At 07:40 PM 8/29/2015, you wrote:
>This is ridiculous. Teaching me how to travel better encompasses 
>teaching me to use orientation skills in conjunction with a guide dog 
>since that is my mobility aid of choice. Better cane technique or cane 
>usage for mobility does not help me as a guide dog traveler. As guide 
>dog travelers, we are required to assess our environment through our 
>feet, hands, sound shadows, and cuing our dogs to locate certain 
>landmarks. I don't see how cane travel translates.
>Cane travel and guide dog travel are diametrically different, as Julie 
>J described in a previous post relating to Tom trying for a guide dog.
>If the training centers don't have these differences in mind and cannot 
>adapt lessons accordingly, I think this is incredibly devaluing and 
>inconsiderate of handlers relationships and use of their guide dogs.
>
>After I got a guide dog, I received mobility training from an O&M 
>instructor around the city that I lived in. How useful would that 
>training have been to me if she had said, "Even though you've got your 
>dog, I'm gonna show you how to navigate the city using your cane."
>What kind of sense does that make? The cane does things the dog 
>doesn't, and vice versa. I have to use certain techniques with my dog 
>that I never had to with a cane, and vice versa.
>I'm not saying the training you'll receive will be useless, but part of 
>it will be a waste, considering there are important aspects of guide 
>dog travel you could concentrate on instead.
>I understand that training centers teach much more than O&M. But I've 
>stayed at the training center here in Michigan, and the O&M instructors 
>there are perfectly fine with clients using their guide dogs. In fact, 
>my instructor at the training center recommended that I apply to get a 
>guide dog, a long while before I even considered it as an option.
>--
>Raven
>Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
>www.1am-editing.com
>
>You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you 
>have or what you do.
>
>Naturally-reared guide dogs
>https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>
>On 8/29/15, Michael Hingson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have not been to a center as a student, but I serve on one of the 
> > center boards and have talked to many people who have participated 
> > in the programs.
> > My understanding is that centers will assist by permitting you to 
> > leave your dog in an office, possibly with staff, so the dog will 
> > not be alone.
> > Remember that the reason, in part, for going to the centers is to 
> > learn better travel techniques which means developing better cane 
> > skills as that is what the centers teach. You WILL find this 
> > invaluable after your time at the center.
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> >
> > Michael Hingson
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley 
> > Coleman via nagdu
> > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2015 5:11 PM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Ashley Coleman <amc05111 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guides at NFB training centers
> >
> > Hi, I know that these centers do a great job in regards to teaching. 
> > Please make sure that your dog get as much exercise as normal. Also, 
> > live a radio or TV on so that your dog has something calming to 
> > listen to. Check with your trainers to find out when they would like 
> > you to use a cane. Honestly, I would rather work with my dog than a 
> > cane. I would have a difficult time leaving Landon behind in my room all
day. JMO.
> >
> > Ashley Coleman,
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Aug 29, 2015, at 19:07, Aleeha Dudley via nagdu 
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello all,
> >> I will be attending the Louisiana center for the blind in 
> >> September. I
> > know what their policy on dogs is, but I would like to hear from 
> > those who have attended centers with your dogs. How was it? What can 
> > I do to reduce the stress on my dog from being left all day?
> >> Thanks.
> >> Aleeha
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone

         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org

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