[nagdu] Guides at NFB training centers

Danielle Cyclorama dsykora29 at gmail.com
Sun Aug 30 14:47:28 UTC 2015


I think Dan brings up a good point. Students at training centers are told when and where they can bring and work their dogs. The centers give a reason for such policies, but they are still restricting the right of the guide dog user to work his/her dog where and when he/she chooses. Maybe it is for the benefit of the student and maybe not; as you can see from this thread, not everyone agrees whether this practice is detrimental or beneficial. If the same was being done by a different organization, it would be considered discrimination by many people. There is a difference between a student choosing to leave her dog  while practiceingcane travel and the centers telling her she has no choice but to leave herdog in my opinion. IIf I was told to leave my dog on tie down in an office because a student in a class had a fear of dogs or a professor didn not want a dog in a  a chemistry lab due to safety concerns, it would be discrimination. Is this same policy acceptable in training centers because leaving the dog accomplishes the greater good of learning cane travel, because it is assumed that center staff know best, or something I am not thinking of? I am truly curious.
I am sure others view the situation differently, but this is how I see it.  I do think it is important to learn cane travel, but not at the cost of having someone (most likely who does not truly understand how a guide dog functions) interfering with the working relationship of a guide dog team.

Danielle and Thai
Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 30, 2015, at 10:14 AM, Darian Smith via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Dan,
> I am a little confused as to whether or not you are seeking knowledge   in something you currently lack, or stating a fact based upon what  you’ve found to be true.
> If the former than I will share what I know to be true with you.
> Our training centers never ask a student to leave their guide in their apartment all day.
> An individual with a dog guide  would work their dog from the  apartments to the center and while in classes the dog would stay  on tie down in the office of an instructor or staff person.  That person is in the room doing their job but isn’t interacting with your dog.  You would go from one class to another doing  the same types of classwork as your peers in the program including using a cane  traveling between your   classes and of course using your cane during cane travel  class (orientation and mobility).
> You of course would visit with your dog between breaks in class and at lunch and then pick them back up at the end of the day.
> there are times where you might work on  guide dog related travel stuff with your dog, but this will not be something that you would spend the majority of your time doing.
> I hope this helps      
>> On Aug 30, 2015, at 6:16 AM, Dan Weiner via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> So what happens tat the vaunted centers, you leave your dog behind in your
>> appartment all day or what is it, I think it's a travesty but then again I'm
>> not going to one any time soon so I'll leave it up to those going there as
>> to the level of ttolerance for what I think is an incorrect policy.
>> Anyway, my opinions asside, what is the dog guide policy of the Centers?
>> 
>> Cordially,
>> Dan W.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of Ashley Coleman
>> via nagdu
>> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2015 8:11 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Ashley Coleman
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guides at NFB training centers
>> 
>> Hi, I know that these centers do a great job in regards to teaching. Please
>> make sure that your dog get as much exercise as normal. Also, live a radio
>> or TV on so that your dog has something calming to listen to. Check with
>> your trainers to find out when they would like you to use a cane. Honestly,
>> I would rather work with my dog than a cane. I would have a difficult time
>> leaving Landon behind in my room all day. JMO.  
>> 
>> Ashley Coleman, 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On Aug 29, 2015, at 19:07, Aleeha Dudley via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> I will be attending the Louisiana center for the blind in September. I
>> know what their policy on dogs is, but I would like to hear from those who
>> have attended centers with your dogs. How was it? What can I do to reduce
>> the stress on my dog from being left all day? 
>>> Thanks. 
>>> Aleeha
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
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>>> =
>> 
>>> Papa is right, BJJ was known as Gracie Jiu Jitsu when it was first
>>> introduced to America, but as others started teaching and opening
>>> their own academies it became known as Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. As a
>>> woman, I would have to disagree with the claim that it's not effective
>>> as self defense, primarily because many of the positions that we learn
>>> to  defend are those where we we would find ourselves during a sexual
>>> assault. SERE and a large portion of Special Forces training involves
>>> BJJ and a lot of them use the Gracie Combatives technique. One of my
>>> good friends recently went through a test for a local police
>>> department where he had to enter a house with 4 assailants, pretend of
>>> course, and his job was to subdo them as best as he could. They
>>> stopped the test after he put the first guy to sleep using a choke and
>>> dislocated another's shoulder. I don't know about the Army Ranger, but
>>> I have several UFC fighters on my team, and they all have won using
>>> one art or another, be it BJJ, striking, or whatever. If you are
>>> stepping into the octogon, it's best to have training both standing
>>> and on the ground.
>>> =
>> 
>>>> On 8/30/15, Poppa Bear via Sportsandrec <sportsandrec at nfbnet.org <mailto:sportsandrec at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>> Not a problem Cara, take care.
>>>> =
>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Sportsandrec [mailto:sportsandrec-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:sportsandrec-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of
>>>> Carly Mihalakis via Sportsandrec
>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2015 11:23 PM
>>>> To: Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List
>>>> Cc: Carly Mihalakis
>>>> Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Greetings
>>>> =
>> 
>>>> Evening, Poppa,
>>>> =
>> 
>>>> Thank you for that explanation!
>>>> CarAt 12:06 AM 8/30/2015, you wrote:
>>>>> Brazilian Jujitzu is an off shoot of a martial art made very famous by
>>>>> the Gracey family who were originally from Brazil and adapted
>>>>> traditional jujitsu to their own style. In the early days of MMA/UFC
>>>>> the Gracie family were pretty much unstoppable and as their popularity
>>>>> spread they and their students established dojoes throughout the US as
>>>>> well as other countries. Brazilian Jujitsu also known as BJJ on most
>>>>> message boards and in most training gyms is now a day's considered to
>>>>> mainly be a ground game geared towards the octagon or MMA/UFC style of
>>>>> fighting. The training is big on locks, pens and many grappling
>>>>> techniques with some striking. Sometimes opponents will start on their
>>>>> knees or even back to back. There is a blindBJJ practitioner who has
>>>>> even one some pro MMA matches. As far as a self defense martial art
>>>>> sport, many argue that it is the least geared towards self defense, but
>>>>> at the same time, I think that when it comes down to a student who
>>>>> knows BJJ versus a person who has no formal martial art training, the
>>>>> odds are in the trained persons favor. I have a client who is an Army
>>>>> Ranger graduate and he went to the local BJJ gym for a while and when
>>>>> it came to the octagon he said that he got his butt kicked. As a
>>>>> Ranger, I doubt that the BJJ students would be as successful in a
>>>>> street fight though, but you never know. Also, depending on the gym the
>>>>> physical training can be very intense and extremely competitive. The
>>>>> Graceies were a rough and tumble family and they were also surfers in
>>>>> Brazil. As with many surfers there is a kind of brotherhood, lingo and
>>>>> even dress code and a lot of the time it translates into BJJ. Even when
>>>>> it comes to the BJJ clothing and gear it is more fashionable, bad
>>>>> boyish and more spendier than other martial arts. I know that I wasn't
>>>>> asked the question, but as on most boards the allowance is given to
>>>>> answer a little out of order, I hope I didn't cause any offence.
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Sportsandrec
>>>>> [mailto:sportsandrec-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:sportsandrec-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of Carly Mihalakis
>>>>> via Sportsandrec Sent:
>>>>> Saturday, August 29, 2015 10:38 PM To: Sports and Recreation for the
>>>>> Blind Discussion List Cc:
>>>>> Carly Mihalakis Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Greetings Evening, Marana,
>>>>> What does Brazilian Jiu Jitsu look like? What identifies that this
>>>>> martial art derives from Brazil?, At 03:33 PM 8/26/2015, you wrote:
>>>>>> Hello and Welcome. What type of martial arts do >you do? I'm in
>>>>> California and train Brazilian >Jiu Jitsu, which is the best thing I've
>>>>> ever >done in my life.
>>>>> Looking forward to having you >along. On 8/26/15, Audrey Farnum via
>>>>>> Sportsandrec <sportsandrec at nfbnet.org <mailto:sportsandrec at nfbnet.org>> wrote: > >Hi Little Dove. > >
>>>>> Welcome to the list. I=C3=A2=80=99m a >rower from Oklahomaoma City. Jus=
>> t wanted
>>>>> to let >you > know that we have an Oklahoma Sports and >Rec Division.
>>>>> You hopefully saw the > notice >somewhere, but in case you missed it,
>>>>> we are >having a meeting tonight > by Conference call. >The toll free
>>>>> number is 1-877-394-5901 and the >access > code is 9610225. We=C3=A2=80=
>> =99re
>>>>> starting at >7:30. It will probabbably be a small group > since
>>>>>> we=C3=A2=80=99re still getting ng off the ground, but we=C3=A2=80=99d =
>>> love for you to
>>>>> get > i> involved. Call in tonight >if you can.
>>>>> Hope to talk to you! > > >Regards. > > Audrey T.
>>>>> Farnum > www.nfbok.org <http://www.nfbok.org/> >> >On Aug 26, 2015, at
>>>>> 3:59 PM, LittleDove Cole via >Sportsandrec >> <sportsandrec at nfbnet.org <mailto:sportsandrec at nfbnet.org>>
>>>>>> wrote: >> >> Hi. I just wanted to write in and >say hello. I have just
>>>>> joined the >> mailing >> >list and i cannot wait to meet u all. Im from
>>>>>> oklahoma and i do martial >> arts. I am really >excited to hear about
>>>>> everyone elses sport >passions and >> meet others who r blind. >> >>
>>>>>> Thanks >> >________________________ _______________________ > > >
>>>>> Sportsandrec mailing list >> >Sportsandrec at nfbnet.org <mailto:Sportsandrec at nfbnet.org> >> >http://nfbne <http://nfbne/>
>>>>> t.org/mailman/listinfo/sportsandrec_nfbnet.org <http://t.org/mailman/listinfo/sportsandrec_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >get your account
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>>>>> ns/sportsandrec_nfbnet.org/atfarnum%40icloud.com <http://40icloud.com/>
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________
>>>>> _________ > >  Sportsandrec mailing
>>>>> list > >Sportsandrec at nfbnet.org <mailto:Sportsandrec at nfbnet.org> > >http://nfbnet <http://nfbnet/>.
>>>>> org/mailman/listinfo/sportsandrec_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>> _____ >Sportsandrec mailing
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