[NAGDU] Dog maturity was:Hello

Wed Dec 16 18:16:03 UTC 2015

Hi everyone,

thanks for sharing your views on dog maturity and age with me! It's 
interesting, really.
The reason why I'm so sensitive about that topic is that Taylor, who is my 
first guide, was almost three but still behaved like a puppy in the house 
for the first weeks. So I was pretty unexperienced and while he was a 
perfekt worker from day one, I had so much work to do regarding his house 
manners. And I'm still working on certain behavioural issues. So I tend to 
think: If he had been even younger, it would have been more trouble or more 
work to do.
But as Sandra's example shows, it does not have to do with the actual age of 
the dog. Maybe it would have made no difference at all if Taylor had been a 
year younger because it's just his silliness and not his age. ;-)
Anyway, it's interesting to read about your different expierences on this.

Lisa

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raven Tolliver via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 3:55 AM
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello

>A major problem with putting dogs into the field at an early age is
> that the earlier you remove sex organs, the more detrimental it is to
> a dog's physiological and mental development, putting them at higher
> risk for certain growth-related diseases and disorders.
>
> Also, I think schools who match dogs to first-time handlers don't take
> the maturity of the handler into consideration in addition to the
> maturity of the dog. More specifically, I don't think energetic,
> bullheaded adolescent dogs should be given to inexperienced dog
> handlers, especially since most US guide dog schools have the view
> that clients are not trainers, and don't require dog training
> education.
>
> I don't think schools are handing out faulty guides. However, many
> young dogs still have a lot of puppy in them, whether that is
> expressed as high energy, mouthiness, unnecessary/inappropriate
> retrieving, consistent highly distracted behavior, issues focusing,
> inconsistent obedience, reactivity, and a host of other things. It has
> been proven that breeds outside of the labrador, like the golden and
> German shepherd, have more stable temperaments and are more successful
> when issued at a later age. And guide dog schools in many other
> countries don't issue their dogs so early as many schools do in North
> America for a multitude of good reasons. There's exceptions to every
> rule, but I don't think it is the norm to do what many schools do
> here.
>
> I'm not intending to step on anyone's toes at all, but it just keeps
> getting scarier and scarier when assistance dog programs continue to
> shorten the time dogs spend in training, and people are ending up with
> 9-10 month old assistance dogs. And yes, that has and does happen.
> -- 
> Raven
> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
> www.1am-editing.com
>
> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you
> have or what you do.
>
> Naturally-reared guide dogs
> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>
> On 12/15/15, S L Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello:
>>
>> Eva was 14 months old the day I got her.  Assuming she had the usual 
>> Pilot
>> Dogs 4 months of training, she left her puppy raiser at 10 months old. 
>> Her
>>
>> behavior in the house was perfect from the day I was handed her leash.  I 
>> do
>>
>> not agree with using a crate so, Eva was loose in the room from our first
>> day.  When we returned home 10 days later she had complete freedom in the
>> house and her behavior has been perfect.  I think it depends on how the 
>> dog
>>
>> was raised, trained and the maturity of the dog.  Although Eva was so 
>> young,
>>
>> I have not had any work related problems.  That is much more than I can 
>> say
>>
>> for some much older dogs I have received over the past 40 years.
>>
>> Sandra and Eva, who still isn't 3 years old
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lisa Belville via NAGDU
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 4:45 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Lisa Belville
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello
>>
>> Hi, Lisa, as others have said, it depends on the schools.  Some only 
>> train
>> for four months but the schools I know who do this keep their dogs with 
>> the
>> puppy raisers for a year and a half and they crunch the four months of
>> training into more training opportunities throughout the day.
>>
>> I'm on my third dog and I definitely want a dog who has had more time to
>> mature without the stresses of kennel life or formal training, not that
>> extensive formal training isn't important, but a dog who can be rid of 
>> most
>> of his puppy tendencies before I get him is going to have a better chance
>> with me because  I can concentrate on work issues specific to my
>> environment.
>>
>> My first dog was 18 months old when I got him, and he was an awesome
>> worker,
>> but full of energy and really too fast and hard of a puller for me.  I
>> honestly don't think more time with his raisers would have made much
>> difference in that case, he was just very rambunxious and too smart for 
>> his
>> own good.    My second dog was turned into the school early because they
>> were running low on dogs.  She spent barely ten months with her puppy
>> raisers, and I got her days before she turned a year and a half.  She'd
>> gone
>> through training, but had a ton of kennel time in there.  she was 
>> probably
>> the worst behaved as far as in house manners, and I spent most of the 
>> first
>> year adjusting to her horrible house manners and some training issues. 
>> she
>> turned out to be a good dog, but not without a huge amount of time and
>> effort on the part of myself and the school.
>>
>> My current dog turned two just before we were matched.  She was with her
>> raiser for a year and a half.  She is by far the calmest and most behaved
>> of
>> my dogs, even as a green dog.  All of the dogs in the class where I got
>> Paige were over two as well.
>>
>> I'm not saying that letting dogs stay with their raisers for longer than 
>> a
>> year is a 100% guarantee for a successful match, but it does help.  also,
>> since I've worked with dogs before, I know what I want and don't want and
>> what I absolutely will not tolerate in a dog, so that helps, too.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lisa
>>
>> Lisa Belville
>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>> Veni, Vedi, Visa. I came. I Saw. I did a little shopping.
>
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