[nagdu] What's up with all the scavenging anyhow?

Wed Jul 1 21:21:31 UTC 2015

Scavenging is not an epidemic. It has been happening since the
beginning of dog training. Scavenging has more to do with the
individual dog's experience and personality. My dog is definitely a
scavenger. He is extremely food motivated and will eat nearly anything
whether it is food or not. Because of this attitude toward food, he is
naturally more likely to take advantage of an opportunity to steal
food than a dog who is less interested in food. In addition, he finds
something as simple as a piece of paper or plastic rewarding to eat,
where other dogs do not.

I use treats with my dog often. I have figured out which situations
treats are beneficial to learning and when they might be too
distracting for my particular dog. Because food is such a powerful
motivator for Thai, I find it would be irresponsible and unwise for me
not to use such an influential tool.

I don't think the responsible use of treats would trigger scavenging
behavior in a dog. After all, treats generally come from your hand and
no where else. I also do not permit my dog to take a treat unless I
tell him "OK" or click. I have even used treats to stop scavenging
behaviors. For example, my dog would often find food to eat directly
in his path through the lunch area to the cafeteria at my school. I
started giving my dog a treat nearly every time he found a particular
seat in the cafeteria; eventually, he learned to focus on the treat
and praise he would get by finding my seat rather than scavenging on
the way. He didn't think that because I gave him a treat, I gave him
permission to eat what ever he wanted.

I absolutely, 100% support the shift many programs are making from
coercive, correction-based training to positive reinforcement. When I
attended training at GDF a year ago, it seemed obvious (to me) that a
transition was being made from retroactive to proactive training
methods. Treats were used for obedience and some of the "find"
commands, but corrections were used for behaviors such as sniffing or
scavenging.

I honestly couldn't care less what the public thinks of my training
methods. I don't just use treats because it makes me look good. I'm
not going to stop using a Halti because someone thinks it is cruel to
put a "muzzle" on my dog. If carrying something prevents my dog from
scavenging, then I will give him something to carry. I have even
gotten criticized for not using a correction collar to stop my dog
from pulling; everyone knows guide dogs don't pull... (my dog was
leash-guiding at this time)

I remember the first time my dog scavenged in class. It seemed to me
that he started to realize that I couldn't see the food, more
specifically him staring at the food, and hadn't yet learned his body
language to tell him "leave it". Then he realized how rewarding
scavenging could be and started taking advantage of more
opportunities.

Danielle,Thai, and Bonnie (GDF puppy in training)

On 7/1/15, S L Johnson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I use treats when teaching Eva to find new places or when learning a new
> task.  She knows that she must not grab anything off the ground or from
> anyone else.  She will not grab treats out of my hand but will wait for me
> to say she can have it.  I've used treats with all my dogs for the past
> forty years and have not noticed any serious scavenging problems.  If one of
>
> them did scavenge, a firm quick correction usually solved the problem.  It
> didn't take them long to learn that grabbing things would get them into
> trouble.  I only had one dog who was an impossible scavenger.  She  would
> stop in traffic to grab stuff.  That little brat of a yellow lab had a
> career change four months after we left class.  I refuse to work a dog who
> will put my life in danger just because she wants to scavenge or be
> distracted.  I think a lot of behaviors begin when the dogs are young
> puppies.  That goes back to the puppy raiser thinking the puppy is cute and
>
> not correcting for these bad behaviors.  I would not let my dog carry
> anything while working.  They could become distracted and put you in danger
>
> if they happened to drop it  and stopped to pick it up again in the middle
> of the street.  Also, I think it would look very unprofessional for a
> properly working guide dog.
>
> Sandra and Eva
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daryl Marie via nagdu
> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 5:02 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Daryl Marie
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] What's up with all the scavenging anyhow?
>
> Viviana,
>
> My dog does (have a mild scavenging problem, but it was much much more
> severe when we first got home.  If she is stressed, she tends to revert back
>
> to it, but the severity is NOTHING like it was.
> We never used treats during training, either during the formal guide dog
> training or in my in-home placement, with one exception; I did use treats if
>
> she did perform a task she had struggled with for days/weeks.  I don't think
>
> that occasional treat made her a scavenger...
>
> Daryl
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Vivianna via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> To:
>
> NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> Cc: Vivianna <irishana at gmail.com> Sent: Tue, 30 Jun 2015
>
> 23:50:30 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [nagdu] What's up with all the scavenging
> anyhow?  ok, here goes a contraversial post. i am reading a load of posts
> about folks having problems with their dogs grabbing things off the ground.
>
> it seems that, this is the most common problem that folks seem to be having
>
> with the second being dog distractions. do you think that, since many
> schools are using food to train the dogs that this problem has come up? i
> have had several guides and have never had a dog try and carry things
> around. i also never use food as a reward for my dog. i am just so totally
> against feeding my dog treats in order to get her to guide me properly.
> from what i read, dogs are grabbing things off the ground while actually
> guiding, while lying on a bus or train, in restaurants, in stores, while
> relieving, etc. for me, and, this is just my own preference, i could not
> work with a dog that did this. i can put up with some behaviors but, this is
>
> definitely not one of them. folks seem to think that itâ?Ts ok to treat the
>
> dog for good behavior and then they wonder why heâ?Ts so focused on food. i
>
> have even had 3 labs and, they didnâ?Tt want to carry things around. for a
> pet, yeah, maybe itâ?Ts cute to see the dog carrying around toys in public,
>
> but, a guide dog? this should be a professionally trained dog doing a
> professional job, looking out for the handler. i think that, if the dogs
> were trained without the use of treats this would be way less common. this
> is all only my opinion and things that i, personally could not handle. i
> have probably offended some but, maybe, i may just caused some to think
> about the food-based training a bit. Vivianna
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