[nagdu] What's up with all the scavenging anyhow?

Thu Jul 2 19:21:02 UTC 2015

Hi Raven,
Again, you have done an excellent job explaining so much. You had a unique
opportunity to learn something important, and I'm happy you chose to share
it.

When I trained with my first guide dog in 1971 at GDF, we were taught that
the biggest difference between guide dog training and the training that was
in vogue for training dogs (e.g. attack dogs) was that guide dog training
was done with positive re enforcement not harsh and cruel tactics. We were
taught to use verbal praise often, use a lower less pleasant voice to
indicate our displeasure, to give a quick tug on the harness handle if the
verbal admonishment didn't work and to use a quick leash correction only as
a last resort. I think people jump too quickly to the leash, and it is
detramental to the dog, the relationship, the public perception of blind
people and probably a few other things.

When I was living with my first dog in Philadelphia, we had a situation
where he had been attacked several times. It may have been the wrong thing
to do, and I'm sure the schools would object, but I decided to leave the
leash at home, so he could defend himself more easily, if it happened again.
I'm not making a point for doing this, but I want to point out that I was in
a position where I couldn't have used a leash correction if I'd wanted to,
and I had no trouble controlling my dog without it.

My current dog has never responded well to leash corrections. A quick snap
of the harness handle works much better, if he's ignoring my voice.
Donna & Hunter

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
via nagdu
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 1:19 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Raven Tolliver
Subject: Re: [nagdu] What's up with all the scavenging anyhow?

Positive reinforcement training should be a mandatory part of guide dog
class. This is because to understand how it works, you typically learn a
handful about psychology, and by learning this, you improve your
communication skills with both people and animals. In my opinion, there are
more drawbacks to not learning it, than there are disadvantages to learning
it.
As an aside, clicker training and treat training are not the same thing.
I've trained a number of dogs with the clicker without using treats, and I
used play, praise, or petting instead. I've also done positive reinforcement
training without the clicker. Some dogs find the clicker incredibly
startling or distracting, so I just use the word "yes" instead, click my
tongue, or tap my thigh.
The goal is to reward good behavior, ignore bad behavior, thereby increasing
good behavior and reducing bad behavior. When undesirable behavior isn't
rewarded, the dog will naturally stop the behavior, because it yields no
benefit.
Unfortunately, one of the first things many guide dog schools talk about and
hammer home is the use of the leash correction. They talk far more about
this than positive reinforcement, and they fail to adequately and accurately
demonstrate how positive reinforcement can motivate and train a dog to
perform almost any task. And there's my problem.
Leash corrections are not inherently bad. My problem with leash corrections
is how often they are used, the reasons they are used for primarily, and the
fact that people are taught to punish their dog before they are taught a
myriad of other methods  that could refocus their dog just as easily.
I find it problematic because I think it is disrespectful to dogs. I
wouldn't want someone to slap me just because they tried to get my attention
a couple times, and I didn't understand, agree with, or do what they wanted.
So no, I don't do that to my dog.
My second day of my current job, my mentor showed me how to clean dog runs,
but I wasn't doing it correctly. She kept showing me hand-over-hand what she
wanted, but when she let go, I still wasn't doing it the way she showed me.
So should she have slapped me or grabbed my shirt collar and yanked on me
because I wasn't doing what she asked? As a biased party, I'm going to say
no. Not because that would hurt, but because that would be incredibly
disrespectful. And slapping me wouldn't make me enjoy my job or enjoy
working around her.
Yes, I would try my best to do what she wanted, but only because I wouldn't
want to get assaulted again.
And I feel the same way about the dogs I work with. Dogs are extremely
forgiving and loyal creatures, even if they goof up some times. They love us
unconditionally, and deserve our unconditional respect and loyalty in
return. They are creatures who do not reason on the level that we do. They
can't think in retrospect, or reflect upon their actions. They don't have
the capacity to just shut off all of their instincts and drives, just as all
people don't. They act out of selfish desires sometimes, just like we do.
And I don't think a leash correction is the solution to this problem, or
should even be taught as a default trouble-shooting technique.
If you can't get a dog to do something without force, it is because of a
failure to adequately communicate on your part, not because the dog is not
listening.
Another problem with leash corrections is that people usually correct out of
frustration and anger, rather than with a sincere heart of keeping the dog
in check. There is usually negative emotions wrapped up in correcting with
the leash, and so this causes dogs to behave out of stress, fear and alarm.
I don't want this for any of the dogs I work with. I don't want to make them
stressed, fearful or alarmed. I don't want to get angry or frustrated with
them, or even show them that I have such feelings. If I get frustrated, it's
time to either do a walking meditation, or stop. I refuse to work or train a
dog if I am frustrated. This stresses out the dog, increases my level of
stress, and creates an unproductive situation. Because what happens if I
give a leash correction, and the dog keeps acting a fool? I just keep
correcting and punishing until I finally get it in my head that we're
getting nowhere, so I've dropped that technique. No more frustration, and no
more leash corrections.

When you focus on the good, your desires and your dog's desires, and how you
can capitalize on your dog's desires to motivate them to want what you want,
you don't have to focus on untraining or correcting bad behaviors. Think of
the saying: "You bring about what you think about." And this is true. Try
your best to focus on what you want your dog to do, rather than what you
don't want them to do. If you are always worried about scavenging, or dog
distractions, or whatever your dog's kryptonite is, you only increase your
dog's stress, worsening the situation. This is easier said than done, I know
from personal experience. But this definitely works. We set up our dogs for
success by focusing on what we envision to be successful behavior.

This is my unpopular opinion, and that's fine. This is something I've come
to understand because I had to work in a place where positive punishment was
forbidden, and I had to sign a contract affirming that I would not use
physically aversive techniques. I'm gonna bet most dog handlers are not ever
put in that situation, so it will be difficult for many people to grasp.
But I am eternally grateful I was put in that position because it
established a solid foundation for my beliefs and values surrounding dog
training and canine care. My relationship with my own dog has improved
tremendously, and working with him is now very fluid. And I have acquired a
great deal of patience and understanding from that job.
--
Raven
Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
www.1am-editing.com

You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you have or
what you do.

Naturally-reared guide dogs
https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs

On 7/2/15, Debby Phillips via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> You know, folks talk negatively about leash corrections.  They DO NOT
> HURT THE DOG.  It's a reminder to pay attention, and it's only if
> verbal doesn't work.  I'm sick of hearing how terrible we are if we
> give leash corrections.  Pfui.  To not discipline a dog and to not
> show leadership when it's needed is a crime.  Being consistent, fair,
> loving, kind, praising for good work, using verbal correction totally
> works.  If leash corrections are necessary they DO NOT break the
> spirit of a dog.  I've had eight, and none of them have hated me, not
> worked for me, and have responded well.  You all do as you like, but
> I'm here to tell you that if Nova needs a leash correction, that's
> what will happen.
> Then she will focus on me and her work again, and will get praise.
> nova doesn't like to be in trouble, so usually verbal works well with
> her, but not always, and when it doesn't, I will not be afraid to use
> what works.  Yup, I'm old school, but I'm
> thankful for the great training that I've had.    Debby and Nova
>
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