[nagdu] The membership has spoken, and I am disappointed

Fri Jul 10 20:10:22 UTC 2015

There seems to be two main arguments why some people do not support
unconditional ownership:
1. Guide dogs are a gift that blind people should feel gratitude for
and indebted to the school.
2. Conditional ownership prevents mistreatment of the dog.

I have never really understood the view that guide dogs are gifts from
the training programs. Yes, the trainers put a lot of time and money
into the dogs; however, it is their job which they are being paid to
complete. The money doesn't come from the school. The dogs are paid
for by public donations. If anything, guide dog users should feel
gratitude toward the puppy raisers and donors, the ones who have given
time and money to enable the dogs' training. Feeling gratitude however
does not mean that you owe anyone anything. When someone gives you a
gift, they expect you to appreciate their time and effort, but they
don't expect to be repaid.

Retaining ownership of a dog will not prevent mistreatment by the
owner. This is part of the reason why their is a screening process, to
determine which applicants would make suitable handlers. At most, the
school can repossess a dog after an incident has already occurred. Of
course, an excessively overweight dog could be taken away from the
handler for example, but wouldn't it be more effective to emphasize
proper nutrition and identification of ideal body condition? As others
have pointed out though, local laws are already in place to remove
dogs from dangerous situations. Perhaps we could put more effort into
educating animal control on what is or is not appropriate treatment of
a service animal (which isn't too much different from a regular pet)
instead of promoting the practice of giving guide dog schools more
power than  is necessary.

I chose to attend a school that offers unconditional ownership upon
graduation because I believe this should be the norm, not the
exception. I know GDF and TSE offer unconditional ownership and I
believe GDA and Freedom do as well.

Danielle, Thai, and Bonnie (GDF puppy in training)

On 7/10/15, Jody Ianuzzi via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I find it very disturbing that the membership voted on resolutions that they
> didn't know anything about as with the guy dog ownership resolution and NAC.
> There needs to be more explanation at the time of the vote or preceding the
> convention.
>
> What guide dog schools offer ownership now?
>
> JODY 🐺
> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
>
> "There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."
> DOCTOR WHO (Tom Baker)
>
>
>
>> On Jul 10, 2015, at 12:20 PM, margo and isis via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> First of all, a resolution passed by our organization is policy.  Second,
>> I don't understand why this didn't pass because NFB is always fiddling
>> with companies' and agencies' policies.  I do not understand why guide dog
>> schools are put on pedestals higher than any other entity.  I also don't
>> understand why NFB members are so against unconditional ownership.  In
>> NFB, we have high expectations of our capabilities but not passing this
>> resolution to me shows a lack of faith in blind people by many of our own
>> membership.
>>
>> Margo and Isis
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Dyer
>> via nagdu
>> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 10:27 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Shannon Dyer
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The membership has spoken, and I am disappointed
>>
>> Hi, all.
>>
>> I mean no disrespect here. I’m just seeking to understand the resolution
>> better.
>>
>> So, if it had passed, how would this have affected the schools? For
>> example, if I chose to go to a school that did not grant immediate
>> ownership, how would this resolution have helped me? My understanding is
>> that the guide dog schools are independent entities. How does this
>> resolution get them to change their policies?
>>
>> Curiously,
>> Shannon and the Acelet
>>> On Jul 9, 2015, at 9:59 PM, Becky Sabo via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Tina, I agree it shouldn't not gone to the rollcall upstate. At
>>> least it did not go through. Becky Sabo
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jul 9, 2015, at 9:44 PM, Tina Thomas via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> <mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well to be truthfully honest it never should've went to a rollcall
>>> states it was obvious that the nose had it but hey somebody just
>>> couldn't take the loss so they try to sneak it through by asking for a
>>> rollcall but thank God in the end democracy and justice prevailed
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Jul 9, 2015, at 5:44 PM, Julie J. via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So this went to a counted vote by the state delegates?  Where can I go
>>>> to see which state voted which way?
>>>>
>>>> And was this announced on this list?  I honestly had no idea this
>>>> resolution was being presented until it was way too late to talk to the
>>>> people in my state about it.  Hopefully they know my thoughts on the
>>>> subject, but I'm not there and it bothers me that I didn't know to be
>>>> able to explain my views beforehand.
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
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