[nagdu] ownership

Debby Phillips semisweetdebby at gmail.com
Sat Jul 11 11:44:01 UTC 2015 

Julie, when I decided which school I wanted to go to, I picked seeing eye because of its ownership policy period I didn't know anything about schools that could take the dog away period it was a principle with me that I wanted to own my own dog period I personally think that bb and not everyone feels the way I do period now, knowing what I know, I am glad that I made the decision that I did period I would not want the school to be able to decide for instance, that because I only work part time or what ever arbitrary reason they anyway, I guess it's pretty controversial subject period I am personally glad that the rollcall happened, because although it may have seemed obvious I think this was a resolution that was too important to not have a roll call period I'm sorry that it turned out the way it did, I really appreciate all of you and all the good work that you do with your dogs whether you go to a school that allows you to on your dogs or not period well I'm off period got a get ready to leave now period Debbie and Nova

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 10, 2015, at 7:29 PM, Julie J. via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> If ownership isn't a big deal and the schools aren't going to take your dog anyway, then what difference  does it make to give ownership?  I mean if it truly makes no difference, then folks should be good with either ownership or not, but the people who say it's not a big deal are opposed to ownership. Can someone explain this to me?
> 
> Julie
> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now available! Get the book here:
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
> -----Original Message----- From: Marilyn tucci via nagdu
> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 6:04 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Marilyn tucci
> Subject: [nagdu] ownership
> 
> Danielle well said. I am a Lion and we give donations to schools . We do
> a lot of fund raising to donate this money. Next year my local Lions
> club will be sponsoring another dog . I really don't know why everyone
> is making such  a big deal about ownership. The schools don't and won't
> take your dogs back unless you abuse it or neglect it. Believe me they
> don't want your dog. they just want the dog to guide you safely and have
> a good life with you until they retire. I have retired 3 dogs. GDF never
> gave me a problem . They were happy they were given to good homes. One
> dog I kept  even though I had a pet dogs and new guide dog..
> Marilyn and Anna
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 04:10 PM, Danielle Sykora via nagdu wrote:
>> 
>> There seems to be two main arguments why some people do not support
>> unconditional ownership:
>> 1. Guide dogs are a gift that blind people should feel gratitude for
>> and indebted to the school.
>> 2. Conditional ownership prevents mistreatment of the dog.
>> 
>> I have never really understood the view that guide dogs are gifts from
>> the training programs. Yes, the trainers put a lot of time and money
>> into the dogs; however, it is their job which they are being paid to
>> complete. The money doesn't come from the school. The dogs are paid
>> for by public donations. If anything, guide dog users should feel
>> gratitude toward the puppy raisers and donors, the ones who have given
>> time and money to enable the dogs' training. Feeling gratitude however
>> does not mean that you owe anyone anything. When someone gives you a
>> gift, they expect you to appreciate their time and effort, but they
>> don't expect to be repaid.
>> 
>> Retaining ownership of a dog will not prevent mistreatment by the
>> owner. This is part of the reason why their is a screening process, to
>> determine which applicants would make suitable handlers. At most, the
>> school can repossess a dog after an incident has already occurred. Of
>> course, an excessively overweight dog could be taken away from the
>> handler for example, but wouldn't it be more effective to emphasize
>> proper nutrition and identification of ideal body condition? As others
>> have pointed out though, local laws are already in place to remove
>> dogs from dangerous situations. Perhaps we could put more effort into
>> educating animal control on what is or is not appropriate treatment of
>> a service animal (which isn't too much different from a regular pet)
>> instead of promoting the practice of giving guide dog schools more
>> power than  is necessary.
>> 
>> I chose to attend a school that offers unconditional ownership upon
>> graduation because I believe this should be the norm, not the
>> exception. I know GDF and TSE offer unconditional ownership and I
>> believe GDA and Freedom do as well.
>> 
>> 
>> Danielle, Thai, and Bonnie (GDF puppy in training)
>> 
>>> On 7/10/15, Jody Ianuzzi via nagdu  wrote:
>>> I find it very disturbing that the membership voted on resolutions that they
>>> didn't know anything about as with the guy dog ownership resolution and NAC.
>>> There needs to be more explanation at the time of the vote or preceding the
>>> convention.
>>> 
>>> What guide dog schools offer ownership now?
>>> 
>>> JODY thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
>>> 
>>> "There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."
>>> DOCTOR WHO (Tom Baker)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 10, 2015, at 12:20 PM, margo and isis via nagdu wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> First of all, a resolution passed by our organization is policy. Second,
>>>> I don't understand why this didn't pass because NFB is always fiddling
>>>> with companies' and agencies' policies.  I do not understand why guide dog
>>>> schools are put on pedestals higher than any other entity.  I also don't
>>>> understand why NFB members are so against unconditional ownership. In
>>>> NFB, we have high expectations of our capabilities but not passing this
>>>> resolution to me shows a lack of faith in blind people by many of our own
>>>> membership.
>>>> 
>>>> Margo and Isis
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Dyer
>>>> via nagdu
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 10:27 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Cc: Shannon Dyer
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The membership has spoken, and I am disappointed
>>>> 
>>>> Hi, all.
>>>> 
>>>> I mean no disrespect here. I’m just seeking to understand the resolution
>>>> better.
>>>> 
>>>> So, if it had passed, how would this have affected the schools? For
>>>> example, if I chose to go to a school that did not grant immediate
>>>> ownership, how would this resolution have helped me? My understanding is
>>>> that the guide dog schools are independent entities. How does this
>>>> resolution get them to change their policies?
>>>> 
>>>> Curiously,
>>>> Shannon and the Acelet
>>>>> On Jul 9, 2015, at 9:59 PM, Becky Sabo via nagdu wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hey Tina, I agree it shouldn't not gone to the rollcall upstate. At
>>>>> least it did not go through. Becky Sabo
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 9, 2015, at 9:44 PM, Tina Thomas via nagdu  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So this went to a counted vote by the state delegates?  Where can I go
>>>>>> to see which state voted which way?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And was this announced on this list?  I honestly had no idea this
>>>>>> resolution was being presented until it was way too late to talk to the
>>>>>> people in my state about it.  Hopefully they know my thoughts on the
>>>>>> subject, but I'm not there and it bothers me that I didn't know to be
>>>>>> able to explain my views beforehand.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>> 
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