[nagdu] picking breed, gender, and influences from others

Tracy Carcione carcione at access.net
Sat Jul 11 16:27:56 UTC 2015


I don't agree that personality depends on breed to a large extent.  I've had
5 pure-bred labs, and they've all been very different from each other.
Further, the dog I've had the most trouble with in terms of house behavior
is a lab/golden cross.  So, shall I conclude that his undesirable behaviors
come from his golden side, since I didn't get them with pure-bred labs?  My
husband is already saying "Next time, tell them no golden!"
Tracy


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
via nagdu
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 11:20 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Raven Tolliver
Subject: Re: [nagdu] picking breed, gender, and influences from others

Dan,
When we get guide dogs, we are also getting dogs. That means that a person
should be satisfied with that dog, its quirks, mannerisms, and how the dog
behaves out of harness, as well as in harness. And different breeds tend
toward or tend away from different behaviors. I echo your sentiments that a
person should be focused on learning to work a dog and the various aspects
of what is it to effectively work a guide. At the same time, that dog is
much more than a guide, if they weren't, they wouldn't need medical care,
playtime, and downtime. But they are more than just guides, so when we're
deciding on a guide dog, we are deciding on living with a different set of
behavioral mannerisms and personality traits. A large part of that is
dictated by breed. I'd even argue that some behaviors displayed while
guiding are dictated by breed. So I can be picky about the personality and
mannerisms that I am going to live with 24/7 for the next any number of
months or years.
When you get a guide dog, you should approach it from the viewpoint that you
are getting a soul mate. This dog is to practically be your other half in a
very intuitive and symbiotic fashion, and you shouldn't settle for a less
than ideal partner. So I didn't. I have a choice in breed as long as schools
train other breeds, and if they don't train what I want, I'll go elsewhere,
owner train, or have it privately trained, which is the route I plan on
taking the next time around anyway.

Here it is again, this idea that we should just appreciate what the schools
give us, and the schools know best. As a client, consumer, and customer, I
should have a huge say in the product/service that is being provided to me.
Just because the school makes a decision doesn't mean it is right or final.
There are many guide dog teams that have only lasted a few months, or were
not good matches in the very beginning. The schools know their dogs very
well, but no one knows you better than you. The schools only know what you
tell them, so if you aren't completely open about what is appealing,
annoying, or just a downright deal-breaker, They're not going to know, and
end up risking a mismatch. So if you really think you can't live with a
certain breed, or you are attracted to a specific breed for specific
reasons, you have a right to assert that and the school should be open to
your needs and desires. If they can make it happen, they do, and if they
can't, then they give you what they think is the next best thing. But you
should always go for what you want, and if you find that it isn't available
or can't work out, only then should you lighten up on your standards.
--
Raven
Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
www.1am-editing.com

You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you have or
what you do.

Naturally-reared guide dogs
https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs

On 7/11/15, Dan Weiner via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I personally, being brutally honest about it, think that a first time 
> user shouldn't be picking and choosing breeds, they should be learning 
> how to live with and work a guide dog.
> However, having said that I know I'll rustle feathers so I'll state 
> the proviso that it's just my opinion.  Pilot Dogs seems to be the 
> only school with six breeds, the other training programs have three 
> theoretically and less in practice--smile. I mean it's labs, goldens 
> golden-lab crosses, and shepherds, depending on where you go. There 
> may be a boxer or Australian shepherd thrown in or a collie or two, 
> but things change over the years so I can't remember which specific 
> program that would be.
>
>
> Dan's  honest opinion about wanting a specific breed the first time 
> around when you get a dog is: if you want that particular breed of dog 
> go to the humane society where you will be able to choose any breed.
> I mean my first time around I heard every dog owner extolling their 
> breed and I kept thinking "oh a shepherd would be great", "a lab would be
great"
> oh " a golden would be great".--lol People even mentioned poodles to 
> me, and I I just like dogs so then I thought "Oh wouldn't a poodle be 
> nice?"--lol . But I knnew relatively little or nothing about using a 
> guide dog When you go to a training program your primary goal should 
> be to obtain and work with a guide dog. After you have had that 
> experience a few years then I take your desire for a specific breed 
> more seriously and respect it more.
> I can be pretty uncharitable when it comes to the guide dog programs 
> but in this case I tend to agree with them more.
>
> The most common reason I have heard blind folks say they want a poodle 
> is because of dog hair. Well that is certainly your right...the right 
> to want something for  a specific reason, but will it be that easy to 
> get? If you want a poodle because you will have a melt down if a dog 
> sheds, is a guide dog right for you then?  Only you can answer that 
> one, my opinion is no but that is my opinion, which  though perhaps 
> wrong, is mine and I have a right to it--smile If you or a family 
> member has allergies, I mean real ones, not ones you are making up 
> because you want a specific breed, then I certainly cut you a lot more 
> slack and that could be  an answer. I just think that for a 
> first-timer to learn to work as a team with a dog and all that goes 
> with it is taxing enough without limiting the training program. They 
> are using whatever breeds of dogs, I presume, for a reason.
>
> Dan the decisive--lol
>
> .
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J. 
> via nagdu
> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 8:52 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Julie J.
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] picking breed, gender, and influences from others
>
> I can see both sides to the choosing your dog concept.  I have picked 
> all of my dogs because I have owner trained or had them privately 
> trained.  Three turned out great and one was a learning experience.  I 
> don't think her breed
>
> was the problem though.   She just really didn't want to be a guide dog.
> You wouldn't have that issue with a program though, or I'd hope not.
>
> I am very picky with breed, gender and temperament.  With that said I 
> still have to be flexible.  This last time around I had wanted a red 
> Doberman male.  I ended up with a black Doberman female.  I guess you 
> have to decide
>
> what you'll compromise on and what you won't.   To me focus and work ethic
> are of paramount importance.  Also my husband has mild allergies and
> requested a short haired dog.   I researched a ton and then some more
first
>
> on breeds and then breeders.
>
> But one of the huge benefits to going through a program is that they 
> know their dogs and should be able to  match you up with one that suits
you.
> This eliminates a lot of time researching breeds, evaluating dogs and 
> learning what traits best suit your lifestyle.  They are supposed to 
> be making the dog choosing and matching process easier and less 
> problematic for you.
>
> I still say the hardest part about owner training is picking the dog 
> to start with.  If you start with a solid dog, the training is still 
> work, but not a nightmare.  You can start with a mess of a dog and 
> come out with a guide.  It's just that the process will be 
> exponentially more time consuming and difficult.  If the program does 
> a good job of selecting quality dogs and matches them well, the rest 
> will fall into place pretty handily.
>
> All that said, if a poodle is what you want and no other dog will be 
> quite right and you'll always wish you had the poodle, then I say ask for
the
> poodle.   If you're always wishing your lab was a poodle, you'll never be
> truly happy with your lab and the partnership and work will suffer.
>
> Julie
> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is 
> now available! Get the book here:
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raven Tolliver via nagdu
> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 1:31 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Raven Tolliver
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] picking breed, gender, and influences from others
>
> As someone who was and will always be picky about breed, I agree that 
> you shouldn't pick a breed because it's cute. However, if you truly 
> feel that a certain breed's general temperament is more suited to you, 
> I would make the request.
> Three years ago, I got my first guide dog, and I asked for a golden 
> because I have always appreciated how down-to-earth, compliant, and loyal
they are.
> The goldens I met who were pets were very low-key, very 
> out-of-my-face, and minded their own business in the house. Of course, 
> I understand now that some of that is crocked up to the family's 
> training, but I think the breed's ease of trainability plays a major 
> role as well. And goldens are definitely not as stubborn as other 
> breeds used for guiding, which is a big plus in my book.
> I didn't have to explain the case for my choice to the school I 
> attended. I simply asked for a golden, and they obviously found that 
> one of their goldens was a perfect match for my pace, personality, and
handling skills.
> So if you think a certain breed is cute or cool-looking, don't request 
> that breed for that reason. Do research on the temperament, 
> energy-level, and behavioral tendencies of that breed to see if it 
> will meld with your own energy level, temperament, and personality.
>
> To give a good example, I adore one of the most feared and hated 
> breeds, the pitbull. I love how slick their coat is, their 
> musculature, their cute brick heads, wide muzzles, ease of 
> trainability, and willingness to please.
> However, I will likely not have one as a pet up the road. Most of them 
> are extremely high energy, and the kind of smart that can get them in
trouble.
> Honestly, the last thing I need is a high energy dog in my house. They 
> are great to work with for a couple hours, but to live with that 
> energy 24/7, I'm not interested.
>
> So if you think you want a particular breed, understand that it is 
> okay to be picky within reason. Also understand that requesting a 
> certain breed could mean a long wait time. The majority of guide dogs 
> are labradors, and when you decide on a different breed and go the 
> guide dog program root, you could be waiting a while. That was not the 
> case for me, I applied in March, and got into a June class. But that
doesn't happen so soon for everyone.
>
> Ask yourself why you want one breed over another. What specific 
> behavioral and temperamental traits do you like about poodles? What do 
> poodles have to offer that other breeds don't? Do you think you could 
> work with a labrador or another breed? Why or why not?
> Those are just the questions I think you should ask yourself if you're 
> considering requesting a specific breed.
> --
> Raven
> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
> www.1am-editing.com
>
> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you 
> have or what you do.
>
> Naturally-reared guide dogs
> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>
> On 7/10/15, Rachel Krieg via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi, Gerardo.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is best to always let the trainer decide what breed/gender of dog 
>> you will get, in my opinion. Sure, you might get what you think you 
>> want, but it might not be the right pace, pull, or personality. Just 
>> because you think a specific breed is cute, doesn't mean the dog is 
>> best suited to you. The school takes into consideration lifestyle, as 
>> well as personality, pace, and pull of the dog and matches to the 
>> handler accordingly.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not to mention, in my opinion, you shouldn't get a dog just because 
>> of how you like the feel of its fur, or because it is cute.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is also critical to mention, you shouldn't get a dog just to prove 
>> others wrong. I feel that a person should get a dog to enhance their 
>> independence.
>>
>>
>>
>> With a poodle, there is a significant increase in cost, as you have 
>> to have a full service groom done anywhere from 4-8 weeks.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not bashing you in any way, I'm just offering opinions from 
>> someone who has worked dogs for 12 years, and I've seen poodles from 
>> the school I've gotten my prior dogs from. They're a lot of work, and 
>> aren't necessarily as easy to manage for a first-timer, as they tend 
>> to have a temperament that can be difficult to manage. Of course, 
>> there are exceptions, but I feel if you do want the dog for you and 
>> to enhance your independence, you should be less specific in what you 
>> need in terms to gender and breed. You can make your preferences 
>> known, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the ideal match will be 
>> the breed or gender you want.
>>
>>
>>
>> For my first dog, I secretly wanted a female black lab. After having 
>> to retire her, I didn't want another black lab, but I've always wound 
>> up with them. I've loved all of them, though, and I wouldn't trade 
>> the confidence and independence I've gained as a result for anything 
>> in this world.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope this has shed some perspective on this matter.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you would like to email me off list, you can at:
>>
>> Rkrieg7583 at gmail.com
>>
>> Rachel and Lady the lovable lab
>>
>>
>>
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>
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