[nagdu] Gratitude and low expectations WAS Re: The NFB got vote correct on ownership.

Sat Jul 11 18:44:14 UTC 2015

Well, I'l say that at least we live in a country where change can be effected! It may be long and hard but it can be done!

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis via nagdu
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 1:50 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Tami Jarvis
Subject: [nagdu] Gratitude and low expectations WAS Re: The NFB got vote correct on ownership.

Buddy,

I have encountered that attitude towards our agency here, and I really don't get it. The taxpayers are in the same role as the donors to the guide dog schools, only more saint-like and long-suffering of how their generosity is abused by pathetic, whining, grasping blind people (you know how they are, sad sigh). The staff are wonderful people who sacrifice themselves for The Blind. This is accepted and not to be challenged by realities, such as the following:

1. It's a state agency, not a charity. It is established by law for a specific purpose, mainly providing vocational rehabilitation to blind people so the blind people can be more productive members of the culture and the tax base. It's not there to "help the blind."

2. The employees are paid by the state, which means they receive over-market compensation and benefits. In other words, they would not be paid as well in the private sector even in similar jobs. Based on what I've encountered in terms of work ethic, basic communication skills and general competency, the majority of them would not have comparable jobs in the private sector.

3. Blind people are taxpayers and therefore pay for the services the agency is supposed to provide, as well as the salaries and benefits (and non-allowed benefits to staffers the auditors keep turning up). The families and friends of the blind consumers also pay taxes. The point of VR is to enable the blind consumers to pay more taxes, directly and indirectly. This is especially true in an income tax state like Oregon. 
If I earn more, I pay more. The majority of the agency funding is federal, so I have been paying for the thing no matter where I lived my entire career. Even now, I pay hidden taxes and so continue to help fund the agency.

Therefore, blind people needn't be grateful. They need to expect that services will be provided according to law in a reasonable competent manner, since they are paying the people who are supposed to provide those services. That's my opinion, anyway, but I'm an especially obnoxious blind person with unreasonable expectations. /lol/

Oh, I almost forgot. The reason I have such unreasonable expectations -- say, that state employees earning $60k a year or more plus state benefits should be able to read, write and use e-mail with spell check
-- is because I am in denial about being blind. Either that, or I want to be blind. It went back and forth when my case was still fresh enough I bothered to try to do something about it all. Mostly, though, I'm in denial about being blind. If I weren't, I would realize that I need to be grateful and also nice, which adds up to being grateful.

So perhaps that attitude of gratitude being ingrained along with the training and whatnot most blind people get through the agencies carries over to attitudes toward guide dog programs and other resources? After all, the programs are funded by honest-to-goodness charity and are considered charities themselves. And all of it to give blind people this wonderful thing they couldn't provide themselves because they live in darkness and isolation and ... Whatever. Never mind how the blind people are treated.

Never mind that in many cases, the "gift" is not. It is a loan. The donors give gifts, granting ownership of all that wonderful money to the programs for salaries and overhead and additional fundraising efforts and, oh, yeah, training dogs to loan to blind people who are expected to regard the dog as a gift. It seems that in many cases, the gratitude for the gift is to be directed to the people who are paid by the gift givers. Or should we call them the loan-backers? /lol/

I don't entirely understand the dynamic, and I mostly don't understand why it is so widely accepted. I think it is quite wonderful that enough people will donate enough money that so many programs can exist to train guide dogs for blind people they don't even know. I think it's great that the majority of the programs do such a good job of it so consistently. I've also seen the power dynamic abused enough to be horrified and to be more horrified that the person is truly expected to accept the abuse and even be grateful for that, as well. Um... If/when I ever do get a guide through a program, I will definitely be grateful for all the cost and effort that has gone into providing it. I'll probably get myself in a lot of trouble if I run into staffers who think my gratitude should include accepting being treated like a stupid child. 
Maybe I'll be lucky? /shrug/

Tami

On 07/10/2015 02:34 PM, Buddy Brannan via nagdu wrote:
> So,would you also opine that, since blind people don't privately pay for rehab training, say, from BISM, or an NFB center, or the Helen Keller Institute (whose name I probably got wrong), or the New York Lighthouse, low expectations are OK, because someone else is footing the bill, and we should just be grateful to get what we get? If not, why not, and what's the difference? Discuss.
>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>
>
>
>
>> On Jul 10, 2015, at 5:09 PM, Howard J. Levine via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Please understand I don't what government or state paying for our guide dogs, in the united state there are more then one schools and we have choices where we go for a guide dog. What I was saying if want more control then be an owner trained guide dog, if you want can aford to pay some one to train a dog for you then you can and no one cantell you what you can do as long you don't brak any local or state laws. When you go to school and some one else is paying for guide dogs then you give up some fredom that is just way it is in life.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Leye-Shprintse Öberg via nagdu
>> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 3:44 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Leye-Shprintse Öberg
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The NFB got vote correct on ownership.
>>
>> BS'D
>>
>> Howard,
>>
>> How would state (tax) funded guide dogs makes it more realistic with 
>> ownerships of the dogs for the handlers? (It's how I read your 
>> comment about statefunded vs. charity funded guide dogs anyway.)
>>
>> In Sweden, our guide dogs are financed by the government (taxes) and we've no ownerships; we've a disposal right to our dogs; and personally, I think it sucks.
>>
>> LeSholom,
>> Mlle Leye-Shprintse Öberg
>> Stockholm, Suède
>> leyeshprintse at ymail.com
>> http://www.leyeshprintse.com
>> Envoyé de mon iPad
>>
>>> Le 10 juil. 2015 à 15:13, Howard J. Levine via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> a écrit :
>>>
>>> Hi from Howard and guide dog Rhett, the NFB membership got it 
>>> correct on the question of ownership by the school. In the united 
>>> states we do not use public funds and the government does not 
>>> provide guide dogs to blind. The schools use private funds and they 
>>> answer to ones who give of there private funds. The ones who pay for 
>>> our guide dogs call the shops, it cost lot of money to provide guide 
>>> dogs. It cost about fifty thousand dollars to provide guide to blind 
>>> person. There is no free lunches in world when you get something for 
>>> free or little to no cost you give something up. If blind people 
>>> want respect then we need to come another way to fund cost of guide 
>>> dog teams in this country or just pull out your check book and pay 
>>> for guide dog if you want owner ship that how simple it is. Just 
>>> look at what is going on in Greece you can't have cake and eat it. 
>>> Just look at our health care system when it is free to all then you 
>>> just get crap. I don't care if I don't own my guide dog I am happy 
>>> that there are others who are willing to pay and lay out large 
>>> anounts money so I can have guide dog. Where would we be if there would not be others willing to give funds so  we could have guide dogs free or little cost.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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