[nagdu] picking breed, gender, and influences from others

[Leye-Shprintse Öberg]

BS'D

Sherry,

I really like your idea of a list; thank you for sharing! Does it exist any chance that you would be willing to share your list or some of the things which you put under the three different headings?

LeSholom,
Mlle Leye-Shprintse Öberg
Stockholm, Suède
leyeshprintse at ymail.com
http://www.leyeshprintse.com
Envoyé de mon iPad

> Le 11 juil. 2015 à 17:32, Sherry Gomes via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> a écrit :
> 
> I wholeheartedly agree. I have special needs, so they can't just give me any
> average dog. But even this last time, when I applied for retraining to GDB
> last year, I sent them a list. It was a three-part list: the absolute must
> haves, the would be nice to have but not necessary, and the absolute deal
> breakers. Next month I'll celebrate my fortieth year as a guide dog handler,
> and I know very very well, what I can and cannot live with, either in
> general behavior in and out of harness and in terms of guidework. Sure, GDB
> knows me and my needs well, but they don't know it nearly as well as I do.
> They don't know where my physical condition might have declined or improved.
> They don't know the things I might have been able to live with 20 years ago
> but will not anymore. And along with my list, I said that knowing there are
> few enough dogs that meet my very specific physical needs, that I'd really
> prefer a golden. I would be willing to take a lab again, but if there was a
> golden, that would be my preference. Little did I know right then, that as I
> handed that list to the person doing my home interview, it helped her
> identify a dog for me who was even then completing training. And I got
> almost everything I wanted, even some of the things that would be nice but
> not necessary. And I got my golden. The instructors even said my list and
> some other info I sent them helped make that matching process easier. I
> suppose sometimes we could get completely unrealistic in our demands, and
> there are things that are important to some that don't matter to me, but as
> raven says, this dog is a being that will be with us 24/7, with us even more
> than partners or children if we have them, and we are the ones who will be
> living and breathing with them for the next however many years. I'm glad I
> spoke up and sent my list. In all but one area, I got exactly what I wanted
> and needed in my guide dog.
> 
> Sherry
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
> via nagdu
> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 9:21 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Raven Tolliver
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] picking breed, gender, and influences from others
> 
> Dan,
> When we get guide dogs, we are also getting dogs. That means that a
> person should be satisfied with that dog, its quirks, mannerisms, and
> how the dog behaves out of harness, as well as in harness. And
> different breeds tend toward or tend away from different behaviors. I
> echo your sentiments that a person should be focused on learning to
> work a dog and the various aspects of what is it to effectively work a
> guide. At the same time, that dog is much more than a guide, if they
> weren't, they wouldn't need medical care, playtime, and downtime. But
> they are more than just guides, so when we're deciding on a guide dog,
> we are deciding on living with a different set of behavioral
> mannerisms and personality traits. A large part of that is dictated by
> breed. I'd even argue that some behaviors displayed while guiding are
> dictated by breed. So I can be picky about the personality and
> mannerisms that I am going to live with 24/7 for the next any number
> of months or years.
> When you get a guide dog, you should approach it from the viewpoint
> that you are getting a soul mate. This dog is to practically be your
> other half in a very intuitive and symbiotic fashion, and you
> shouldn't settle for a less than ideal partner. So I didn't. I have a
> choice in breed as long as schools train other breeds, and if they
> don't train what I want, I'll go elsewhere, owner train, or have it
> privately trained, which is the route I plan on taking the next time
> around anyway.
> 
> Here it is again, this idea that we should just appreciate what the
> schools give us, and the schools know best. As a client, consumer, and
> customer, I should have a huge say in the product/service that is
> being provided to me.
> Just because the school makes a decision doesn't mean it is right or
> final. There are many guide dog teams that have only lasted a few
> months, or were not good matches in the very beginning. The schools
> know their dogs very well, but no one knows you better than you. The
> schools only know what you tell them, so if you aren't completely open
> about what is appealing, annoying, or just a downright deal-breaker,
> They're not going to know, and end up risking a mismatch. So if you
> really think you can't live with a certain breed, or you are attracted
> to a specific breed for specific reasons, you have a right to assert
> that and the school should be open to your needs and desires. If they
> can make it happen, they do, and if they can't, then they give you
> what they think is the next best thing. But you should always go for
> what you want, and if you find that it isn't available or can't work
> out, only then should you lighten up on your standards.
> -- 
> Raven
> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
> www.1am-editing.com
> 
> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you
> have or what you do.
> 
> Naturally-reared guide dogs
> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
> 
>> On 7/11/15, Dan Weiner via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I personally, being brutally honest about it, think that a first time user
>> shouldn't be picking and choosing breeds, they should be learning how to
>> live with and work a guide dog.
>> However, having said that I know I'll rustle feathers so I'll state the
>> proviso that it's just my opinion.  Pilot Dogs seems to be the only school
>> with six breeds, the other training programs have three theoretically and
>> less in practice--smile. I mean it's labs, goldens golden-lab crosses, and
>> shepherds, depending on where you go. There may be a boxer or Australian
>> shepherd thrown in or a collie or two, but things change over the years so
>> I
>> can't remember which specific program that would be.
>> 
>> 
>> Dan's  honest opinion about wanting a specific breed the first time around
>> when you get a dog is: if you want that particular breed of dog go to the
>> humane society where you will be able to choose any breed.
>> I mean my first time around I heard every dog owner extolling their breed
>> and I kept thinking "oh a shepherd would be great", "a lab would be great"
>> oh " a golden would be great".--lol People even mentioned poodles to me,
>> and
>> I I just like dogs so then I thought "Oh wouldn't a poodle be nice?"--lol
>> . But I knnew relatively little or nothing about using a guide dog
>> When you go to a training program your primary goal should be to obtain
> and
>> work with a guide dog. After you have had that experience a few years then
>> I
>> take your desire for a specific breed more seriously and respect it more.
>> I can be pretty uncharitable when it comes to the guide dog programs but
> in
>> this case I tend to agree with them more.
>> 
>> The most common reason I have heard blind folks say they want a poodle is
>> because of dog hair. Well that is certainly your right...the right to want
>> something for  a specific reason, but will it be that easy to get? If you
>> want a poodle because you will have a melt down if a dog sheds, is a guide
>> dog right for you then?  Only you can answer that one, my opinion is no
> but
>> that is my opinion, which  though perhaps wrong, is mine and I have a
> right
>> to it--smile
>> If you or a family member has allergies, I mean real ones, not ones you
> are
>> making up because you want a specific breed, then I certainly cut you a
> lot
>> more slack and that could be  an answer. I just think that for a
>> first-timer
>> to learn to work as a team with a dog and all that goes with it is taxing
>> enough without limiting the training program. They are using whatever
>> breeds
>> of dogs, I presume, for a reason.
>> 
>> Dan the decisive--lol
>> 
>> .
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J. via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 8:52 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Julie J.
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] picking breed, gender, and influences from others
>> 
>> I can see both sides to the choosing your dog concept.  I have picked all
>> of
>> my dogs because I have owner trained or had them privately trained.  Three
>> turned out great and one was a learning experience.  I don't think her
>> breed
>> 
>> was the problem though.   She just really didn't want to be a guide dog.
>> You wouldn't have that issue with a program though, or I'd hope not.
>> 
>> I am very picky with breed, gender and temperament.  With that said I
> still
>> have to be flexible.  This last time around I had wanted a red Doberman
>> male.  I ended up with a black Doberman female.  I guess you have to
> decide
>> 
>> what you'll compromise on and what you won't.   To me focus and work ethic
>> are of paramount importance.  Also my husband has mild allergies and
>> requested a short haired dog.   I researched a ton and then some more
> first
>> 
>> on breeds and then breeders.
>> 
>> But one of the huge benefits to going through a program is that they know
>> their dogs and should be able to  match you up with one that suits you.
>> This eliminates a lot of time researching breeds, evaluating dogs and
>> learning what traits best suit your lifestyle.  They are supposed to be
>> making the dog choosing and matching process easier and less problematic
>> for
>> you.
>> 
>> I still say the hardest part about owner training is picking the dog to
>> start with.  If you start with a solid dog, the training is still work,
> but
>> not a nightmare.  You can start with a mess of a dog and come out with a
>> guide.  It's just that the process will be exponentially more time
>> consuming
>> and difficult.  If the program does a good job of selecting quality dogs
>> and
>> matches them well, the rest will fall into place pretty handily.
>> 
>> All that said, if a poodle is what you want and no other dog will be quite
>> right and you'll always wish you had the poodle, then I say ask for the
>> poodle.   If you're always wishing your lab was a poodle, you'll never be
>> truly happy with your lab and the partnership and work will suffer.
>> 
>> Julie
>> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now
>> available! Get the book here:
>> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Raven Tolliver via nagdu
>> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 1:31 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Raven Tolliver
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] picking breed, gender, and influences from others
>> 
>> As someone who was and will always be picky about breed, I agree that you
>> shouldn't pick a breed because it's cute. However, if you truly feel that
> a
>> certain breed's general temperament is more suited to you, I would make
> the
>> request.
>> Three years ago, I got my first guide dog, and I asked for a golden
> because
>> I have always appreciated how down-to-earth, compliant, and loyal they
> are.
>> The goldens I met who were pets were very low-key, very out-of-my-face,
> and
>> minded their own business in the house. Of course, I understand now that
>> some of that is crocked up to the family's training, but I think the
>> breed's
>> ease of trainability plays a major role as well. And goldens are
> definitely
>> not as stubborn as other breeds used for guiding, which is a big plus in
> my
>> book.
>> I didn't have to explain the case for my choice to the school I attended.
> I
>> simply asked for a golden, and they obviously found that one of their
>> goldens was a perfect match for my pace, personality, and handling skills.
>> So if you think a certain breed is cute or cool-looking, don't request
> that
>> breed for that reason. Do research on the temperament, energy-level, and
>> behavioral tendencies of that breed to see if it will meld with your own
>> energy level, temperament, and personality.
>> 
>> To give a good example, I adore one of the most feared and hated breeds,
>> the
>> pitbull. I love how slick their coat is, their musculature, their cute
>> brick
>> heads, wide muzzles, ease of trainability, and willingness to please.
>> However, I will likely not have one as a pet up the road. Most of them are
>> extremely high energy, and the kind of smart that can get them in trouble.
>> Honestly, the last thing I need is a high energy dog in my house. They are
>> great to work with for a couple hours, but to live with that energy 24/7,
>> I'm not interested.
>> 
>> So if you think you want a particular breed, understand that it is okay to
>> be picky within reason. Also understand that requesting a certain breed
>> could mean a long wait time. The majority of guide dogs are labradors, and
>> when you decide on a different breed and go the guide dog program root,
> you
>> could be waiting a while. That was not the case for me, I applied in
> March,
>> and got into a June class. But that doesn't happen so soon for everyone.
>> 
>> Ask yourself why you want one breed over another. What specific behavioral
>> and temperamental traits do you like about poodles? What do poodles have
> to
>> offer that other breeds don't? Do you think you could work with a labrador
>> or another breed? Why or why not?
>> Those are just the questions I think you should ask yourself if you're
>> considering requesting a specific breed.
>> --
>> Raven
>> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
>> www.1am-editing.com
>> 
>> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you have
> or
>> what you do.
>> 
>> Naturally-reared guide dogs
>> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>> 
>>> On 7/10/15, Rachel Krieg via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Hi, Gerardo.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It is best to always let the trainer decide what breed/gender of dog
>>> you will get, in my opinion. Sure, you might get what you think you
>>> want, but it might not be the right pace, pull, or personality. Just
>>> because you think a specific breed is cute, doesn't mean the dog is
>>> best suited to you. The school takes into consideration lifestyle, as
>>> well as personality, pace, and pull of the dog and matches to the
>>> handler accordingly.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Not to mention, in my opinion, you shouldn't get a dog just because of
>>> how you like the feel of its fur, or because it is cute.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It is also critical to mention, you shouldn't get a dog just to prove
>>> others wrong. I feel that a person should get a dog to enhance their
>>> independence.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> With a poodle, there is a significant increase in cost, as you have to
>>> have a full service groom done anywhere from 4-8 weeks.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm not bashing you in any way, I'm just offering opinions from someone
>>> who
>>> has worked dogs for 12 years, and I've seen poodles from the school I've
>>> gotten my prior dogs from. They're a lot of work, and aren't necessarily
>>> as
>>> easy to manage for a first-timer, as they tend to have a temperament that
>>> can be difficult to manage. Of course, there are exceptions, but I feel
>>> if
>>> you do want the dog for you and to enhance your independence, you should
>>> be
>>> less specific in what you need in terms to gender and breed. You can make
>>> your preferences known, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the ideal
>>> match will be the breed or gender you want.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> For my first dog, I secretly wanted a female black lab. After having to
>>> retire her, I didn't want another black lab, but I've always wound up
>>> with
>>> them. I've loved all of them, though, and I wouldn't trade the confidence
>>> and independence I've gained as a result for anything in this world.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I hope this has shed some perspective on this matter.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If you would like to email me off list, you can at:
>>> 
>>> Rkrieg7583 at gmail.com
>>> 
>>> Rachel and Lady the lovable lab
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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