[nagdu] Better screening?
Ann Edie
annedie at nycap.rr.com
Mon Jul 13 21:27:46 UTC 2015
Hi, Tracy and Everyone,
I don't really have any suggestions for improving the screening of students to prevent or predict neglect or abuse of guide dogs after placement. However, I think it might be more effective for the guide dog training programs to give stronger education about the care and handling of the dogs, especially to first-time dog handlers or to those whose previous dogs have experienced preventable or treatable health problems. I think that if the schools emphasize that there are reasons for following protocols established by the program for such things as feeding amounts and schedules, relieving schedules and procedures, grooming protocols and daily check of the dog's general condition and coat condition, ear cleaning and nail clipping, daily obedience practice, amount of formal guide work and "playtime" exercise, the "bonding" process and interactions with family/friends, and perhaps most important, how to handle work errors or behavior issues before they become chronic, in ways that prevent frustration and burnout, then handlers might be more likely to adhere to these routines after returning home, at least in the early months of the partnership. I know that lectures are given during class on these topics, and that many schools provide the same information in accessible formats for students to take home with them. But somehow more emphasis needs to be put on the importance of care and management issues, both for the success of the guide relationship and for the longterm health and well-being of the dog. If a student is speaking harshly to his/her dog or delivering corrections inappropriately or punitively, then the correct tone of voice and correction techniques must be demonstrated to the student and the student must be guided through practice scenarios, first with the instructor taking the role of the dog, then with the team in controlled set-up experiences, and finally in the real world of guide dog travel. Programs used to spend hours having students practice their leash corrections, and they had to prove that they had mastered the technique and could deliver a strong enough correction before they were even introduced to their dogs. Perhaps students should have to pass both written tests and practical exams on the various aspects of dog care, psychology, health care, and general maintenance before they walk out with the dog. And maybe the schools will have to rethink the shortening of the classes to less than two weeks in some cases. Perhaps that's just not enough time to teach all the dog management and guide work that must be learned and practiced by the student, especially if that person hasn't had pet dogs in their life beforehand.
I also think that students should be given more responsibility for their dog's care while at the school, both for practical reasons--how will you learn how to administer meds to your dog or to clean out his ears or cut his nails, or even check her weight, if you are never shown how and never given the chance to practice?--as well as for philosophical reasons--to show that the program *expects* that you are capable of taking charge of all aspects of the care of your dog. When I was in class with my first guide dog in the early 1990's, they didn't even expect us to clean up our dogs waste until the 3rd week of class, and then only for a couple of days, to prove that we could do it if we had to. If our dog had to relieve at other than the regularly scheduled times, we were instructed to find an instructor to go with us to the relief area, not to just take care of the function ourselves. If the dog vomited, again, we were supposed to call staff to clean up, rather than to clean it up ourselves. When a group of us went into the big city one day, and one of the dogs relieved itself on the sidewalk, the instructors did not instruct the handler in how to pick up after the dog and ensure that the sidewalk would not hold nasty surprises for unwitting pedestrians. Instead, the instructor whipped out a baggie and made the offensive matter disappear, as if by magic. The reason given for all these procedures was said to be so that staff could monitor the dogs' health status and be aware of any problems. But the message given was that blind people were not expected to be capable of handling these chores themselves. Or perhaps it was that the schools felt that if blind people were confronted too early with the less glamourous aspects of guide dog partnership, they might become disenchanted with the prospect of spending the next decade as partner and caretaker of the guide dog.
I don't believe that any guide dog handler goes into the relationship intending to neglect or abuse his/her dog. Even Inky's owner expressed remourse for his actions after the fact. This is not to condone or excuse any such abuse. But I don't believe that the school's retaining ownership of the dog would have prevented Inky's death or other instances of abuse or neglect of a guide dog. Somehow the programs need to do a better job of teaching students the skills they will need to take responsibility for the everyday care of their dogs and to instill in the students the confidence and expectation that they are capable of fulfilling the responsibilities of guide dog ownership. Hopefully the more positive handling methods taught by the guide dog training programs these days will help to eliminate some of the harsher management techniques which could, in an emotionally at-risk handler, possibly lead to frustration-based abuse of the dog. And more focused education of students in class and at follow-up visits on health and management issues surely could lead to healthier, happier, and longer working guide dogs and teams.
I am among those who feel that ownership of the guide dog upon graduation from the training program is very important, and I especially like the practice of the school charging a nominal amount for the dog and the training. The handler pays her money, which she has presumably earned herself in some way, and walks out with a receipt as the owner of the guide dog. Although we all know that it cost many thousands of dollars to produce and train that dog and to train the team, the granting of full ownership is a clear expression by the guide dog program of its respect for the blind handler and its belief in her essential equality with sighted persons.
Thanks for the thoughtful discussion and for the opportunity to add my opinions to the mix.
Ann
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via nagdu
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 9:53 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Tracy Carcione
Subject: [nagdu] Better screening?
Better screening sounds good, but how could it be done? Are there reliable psych tests, for example, or can such things mean whatever you want them to mean?
People are in class for almost a month, and one would think the trainers could tell something, but I'm not sure.
There was a first-timer in my last class who often spoke sharply to his dog, and often seemed to be lost. Should he have been sent home? Or are they OK, now they're in his home environment? I don't know.
What if the trainer just thinks the student is an idiot, or just doesn't like the student? A team of people would have to make a decision like that.
JMT.
Tracy
> Mike,
>
> The question is why do schools not trust their consumers? The schools
> say they do not arbitrarily repossess dogs. They also say that they
> rarely ever repossess a dog. If true then why does the care of the dog
> continue to come up? Some on this list and the schools cannot have it both ways.
>
> There is more than a home interview involved in passing ownership over
> to a student/consumer. The instructors have all the time blind people
> are in class to evaluate what they can expect from a graduate.
>
> It still comes down to trust. Either school staff trust consumers or
> they do not.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
> Forzano via nagdu
> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 10:26 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Michael Forzano
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The membership has spoken, and I am disappointed
>
> Hi,
>
> My only concern with the resolution was for the well-being of the dogs.
> However, after reading this thread, I'm willing to give it consideration.
> It seems that the argument is that better screening processes would
> prevent dogs from being given to people who shouldn't have them. I
> talked with one of the instructors from my school who felt that it is
> pretty easy for a person to put on a good show for a 2-hour home
> interview. In training, everything is supervised; you are told when to
> feed, park and groom your dog, when to work your dog, etc. so there is
> likely little opportunity to mistreat your dog unless you want to be
> sent home without them. So what kinds of better screening processes
> would prevent dogs from being given to handlers who would be likely to mistreat them?
>
> I'm not against having high expectations for blind people, but this
> mistreatment of dogs seems to be a real issue (see also the thread on
> overweight dogs at convention). The schools breed, care for, and fund
> (through donations) the training of these dogs, so it only makes sense
> that they want them to be placed in good homes and utilized to their
> full potential.
>
> Mike
>
> On 7/11/15, larry d keeler via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Cindy, write me offlist please! I may have friends you may have met.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy ray
>> via nagdu
>> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 8:58 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Cindy ray
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The membership has spoken, and I am disappointed
>>
>> Maybe the restaurant is a bad analogy. The dogs are gifts. They are
>> given on behalf of the donors. Your use of other gifts is not
>> monitored, so why should this gift be?
>> Also, there are always bad apples, but why should all be penalized?
>> We need to trust ourselves more than that, too.
>>
>>
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jul 11, 2015, at 6:51 PM, Marsha Drenth via nagdu
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> As all topics on the list, this one will soon enough die. Everyone
>>> needs to remember that we all have the right to express our opinion,
>>> to agree and disagree about topics like ownership. So for those
>>> people who have agreed with unconditional ownership, you have as
>>> much of a right to say what you would like, as do the people who do
>>> not agree. Just because you can't see the other side, doesn't mean
>>> it's not right.
>>>
>>> I too did not know about this resolution before getting to
>>> convention, it would have been nice to discuss this before hand.
>>> I would also like to say, this is my opinion and only my opinion, I
>>> think that even within the nfb, there is a hierarchy of some people
>>> and others.
>>> I don't know why this is, but I think the two persons that spoke
>>> against the resolution at convention, are not a part of nagdu and a
>>> part of that higher elite. That is the way I see it at least.
>>>
>>> Marsha drenth
>>> email: marsha.drenth at gmail.com
>>> Sent with my IPhone
>>> Please note that this email communication has been sent using my
>>> iPhone.
>>> As such, I may have used dictation and had made attempts to mitigate
>>> errors. Please do not be hesitant to ask for clarification as
>>> necessary.
>>>
>>>> On Jul 11, 2015, at 7:09 PM, Howard J. Levine via nagdu
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You make no sence when you go to Restaurant you pay your food they
>>>> don't give it you for free, and by way guide dog living thing. This
>>>> subject is getting old.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of larry d
>>>> keeler via nagdu
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 6:49 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Cc: larry d keeler
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The membership has spoken, and I am
>>>> disappointed
>>>>
>>>> Well, like Burger King or McDonalds or Wendy's, the burgers are
>>>> different but you own them after going there!
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of margo
>>>> and isis via nagdu
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 6:33 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Cc: margo and isis
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The membership has spoken, and I am
>>>> disappointed
>>>>
>>>> Oh, I hope the conditional ownership programs decrease or change to
>>>> unconditional ownership. There is no valid reason, in my opinion,
>>>> for schools not to allow unconditional ownership. The Seeig Eye
>>>> has done that since its inception and other schools have tried it
>>>> and made it work.
>>>>
>>>> Margo and Isis
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tina
>>>> Thomas via nagdu
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 6:10 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Cc: Tina Thomas
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The membership has spoken, and I am
>>>> disappointed
>>>>
>>>> Hello Everyone- I think it is important to remember that we as
>>>> guide dog users have a choice of what training program we would
>>>> like to attend. I don't want a one size fits all training program.
>>>> Its like going to Burger
>>>> King and excepting to get a Big Mac. It is my belief that we as
>>>> guide
>>>> dog users need to educate each other as well as people looking to
>>>> get a dog on the different policies and practices of all of the
>>>> training programs so that we can make an informed choice of which
>>>> program fits our needs. Now if unconditional ownership is a
>>>> deciding factor in one obtaining a dog, then apply to a program
>>>> that grants it and the programs that have a conditional ownership
>>>> policy will start to decrease in their numbers. As of the here and
>>>> now, those programs who have conditional ownership policies don't
>>>> have an incentive to change because of their numbers.
>>>> Jmts.
>>>> Tina
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Debby
>>>> Phillips via nagdu
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 10:00 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Cc: Debby Phillips
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The membership has spoken, and I am
>>>> disappointed
>>>>
>>>> It is doubtful to me whether people will really change schools
>>>> because of ownership. I think there are lots of folks who aren't
>>>> users of guide dogs within MFB who do not understand the issues.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 10, 2015, at 10:59 AM, larry d keeler via nagdu
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, until something happens to convince NFB to get on board, it
>>>>> will certainly be wise to read your choice of schools contract. It
>>>>> could make a difference if people start going to schools where
>>>>> ownership is offered and stop going to schools who's contracts
>>>>> don't offer it! Consumer choice!
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>>>>> via nagdu
>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 10:41 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>> Users
>>>>> Cc: Julie J.
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The membership has spoken, and I am
>>>>> disappointed
>>>>>
>>>>> Shannon,
>>>>>
>>>>> The resolution itself changes nothing at the guide dog schools.
>>>>> The resolutions are used as guiding principles for the
>>>>> organization. A positive vote means that the organization
>>>>> will/can actively pursue that goal. a negative vote means little
>>>>> because the goal can still be pursued, just not with the force of
>>>>> the entire organization behind it.
>>>>> Once a resolution is passed, the decentors are supposed to keep
>>>>> their dissenting opinions to themselves and support the vote.
>>>>> However a resolution that didn't pass means that the concept is
>>>>> still up for debate or discussion. A resolution that doesn't pass
>>>>> isn't considered to be a policy or decision. For example the
>>>>> resolution we are discussing if passed would mean that the NFB
>>>>> would actively work with the guide dog schools to provide
>>>>> ownership. since it didn't pass it means nothing. It doesn't
>>>>> mean that the NFB supports non ownership. It means the issue is
>>>>> still open and undecided. If folks wanted the NFB's position and
>>>>> support to go to the idea of the schools retaining ownership, then
>>>>> a resolution to that effect would have to be introduced and passed.
>>>>> Perhaps the resolutions could be viewed as a priority list of
>>>>> things the organization wants to accomplish. At least this is the
>>>>> way I have always understood resolutions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julie
>>>>> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog
>>>>> is now available! Get the book here:
>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Shannon Dyer via nagdu
>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 9:26 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Cc: Shannon Dyer
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The membership has spoken, and I am
>>>>> disappointed
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi, all.
>>>>>
>>>>> I mean no disrespect here. I’m just seeking to understand the
>>>>> resolution better.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, if it had passed, how would this have affected the schools?
>>>>> For example, if I chose to go to a school that did not grant
>>>>> immediate ownership, how would this resolution have helped me? My
>>>>> understanding is that the guide dog schools are independent
>>>>> entities. How does this resolution get them to change their policies?
>>>>>
>>>>> Curiously,
>>>>> Shannon and the Acelet
>>>>>> On Jul 9, 2015, at 9:59 PM, Becky Sabo via nagdu
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Tina, I agree it shouldn't not gone to the rollcall upstate.
>>>>>> At least it did not go through. Becky Sabo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 9, 2015, at 9:44 PM, Tina Thomas via nagdu
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org <mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well to be truthfully honest it never should've went to a
>>>>>> rollcall states it was obvious that the nose had it but hey
>>>>>> somebody just couldn't take the loss so they try to sneak it
>>>>>> through by asking for a rollcall but thank God in the end
>>>>>> democracy and justice prevailed
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 9, 2015, at 5:44 PM, Julie J. via nagdu
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So this went to a counted vote by the state delegates? Where
>>>>>>> can I go to see which state voted which way?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And was this announced on this list? I honestly had no idea
>>>>>>> this resolution was being presented until it was way too late to
>>>>>>> talk to the people in my state about it. Hopefully they know my
>>>>>>> thoughts on the subject, but I'm not there and it bothers me
>>>>>>> that I didn't know to be able to explain my views beforehand.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/judotina48kg%
>>>>>>> 4
>>>>>>> 0
>>>>>>> gm
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.
>>>>>> com
>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40
>>>>>> g
>>>>>> m
>>>>>> ai
>>>>>> l
>>>>>> .com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org <mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/solsticesinger
>>>>>> %
>>>>>> 4
>>>>>> 0g
>>>>>> m
>>>>>> ail.com
>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/solsticesinge
>>>>>> r
>>>>>> %
>>>>>> 40
>>>>>> g
>>>>>> mail.com>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.
>>>>> co
>>>>> m
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>> Version: 2012.0.2250 / Virus Database: 4365/9692 - Release Date:
>>>>> 07/09/15
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40comca
>>>>> s
>>>>> t
>>>>> .n
>>>>> et
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/semisweetdebby%
>>>>> 4
>>>>> 0
>>>>> gm
>>>>> ail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/judotina48kg%40g
>>>> m
>>>> a
>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40r
>>>> o
>>>> a
>>>> drunner.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40comcast.
>>>> net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/wb2hww%40earthli
>>>> n
>>>> k
>>>> .net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40
>>>> g
>>>> m
>>>> ail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.
>>> c
>>> o
>>> m
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40comcast.
>> n
>> et
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/michaeldforzano%40
>> g
>> mail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/info%40michaelhings
> on.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.n
> et
>
_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/annedie%40nycap.rr.com
More information about the NAGDU
mailing list