[nagdu] Should Service dogs in training be allowed in the classroom?

[Steven Johnson]

Tami, as we get ready to introduce updated legislation here in Wisconsin,
dogs in training are one of the things we are including.  Even though
Wisconsin has a law in place already allowing service dogs in training to
places of public accommodation, we have decided that because of the imposter
dog issue, we are tightening their eligibility for public access, and must
be wearing identifiable paraphernalia.  It's just an added protection.  

Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis via
nagdu
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 12:33 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Tami Jarvis
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Should Service dogs in training be allowed in the
classroom?

Debby,

Since the ADA is about access for people with disabilities with their
mobility tools, it makes sense that pups in training aren't included. 
More and more states are including dogs in training with their trainers in
their service dog laws. I just did some review and discovered Oregon has
added that. D'oh! I don't think knowing that would have changed how I've
managed with Loki, which is why I didn't do a review earlier. The idea of
taking the pup everywhere to get it used to being good indoors is nice...
The reality is just plain scary. /lol/ Maybe if I could see what the pup was
up to while taking him through the grocery store? Well, and that's when it
would really help to see what's around and what the puppy will be responding
to. If I could see the excited little kid coming before my puppy comes
unglued wanting to play, then I could take effective action to keep him on
the straight and narrow. Knowing about the yummy fresh pie at nose level
right there in the aisle where I think there shouldn't be any such thing
would also help. As it is, I need to rely on a measure of maturity in my
pup, so I'm not rushing to take him to the store.

Now that he's getting ready for indoor public access training, I'm glad to
know I can just go where I need to go with him to refine the prep work I've
been doing. I also think it's up to me as his trainer to be responsible and
cognizant of the fact that he is still a puppy. No, worse! He's an
adolescent. He can be mature and as solid as an old pro, then he can be a
nut. So when I start taking him in, especially to high-stimulus
environments, I'll need to evaluate him before taking the trip, evaluate
again before walking in the door and maybe do some settling, and then I'll
need an exit strategy anyway, with firm rules in mind for myself for when
it's time to go and try again later. It's not all that different from taking
a full grown, fully trained guide in, except that you don't plan for the
dog's brains to fall out without notice by then. /lol/ While I'm wearing my
trainer hat, then I need to remember that whatever else I am doing in the
store, I am primarily training my young dog.

What I did with Mitzi, since I didn't have legal access with her then until
she was task trained, was just make arrangements with local corner markets
and so forth, which I heard is how GDB managed it for their puppy raisers,
at least in the metro area. Once I expanded our horizons and Mitzi was
working enough I could just walk in all legal-like, I got tired of hearing
about green vests -- which is what the GDB pups and dogs in training wear to
identify them. This was before the big education push about the 2 question
rule that made my life so much easier.

It is an interesting problem, getting the pup the exposure it needs without
drama and all while it's learning how to behave in the places it will be
working. By the time Loki was reliably enough house broken for me to
consider some indoor exposure, he had discovered his big bark and liked it.
He still liked to just stop and study things that were new to him, but he
had to add the commentary, so... We've got that mostly under control now and
need to do some more dog distraction work while we wait for a bit more
maturity to happen. Then I guess it's Wal-Mart or bust. /lol/

Most of the owner-trainers or program puppy raisers I know take a similar
approach to getting their youngsters the exposure they need in a responsible
way. I've heard of folks that will just let their pups keep yapping or
snapping or jumping or whatever but haven't encountered that myself. Dealing
with a young dog in a high-stimulus environment is a learning experience,
and mistakes happen. At that point, it's up to the trainer to deal
responsibly with the mistake and know when it's time to call it quits and
cancel the shopping trip or come back without a pup that's not ready.

The same rules apply for when a dog in training can be removed from a
business legally as for a fully trained mature dog. The same problems with
businesses not knowing or being reluctant to ask that the dog be removed
also apply. So I guess it's still up to the trainer to choose to be
responsible, as it is with handlers of fully trained dogs. Puppy raisers for
programs have the program's reputation to motivate them and whatever
training the program gives them to help them know how to make good
decisions. Owner-trainers are trying to make their lives easier and more
hassle-free, so that's a good motivator for me and most of the
owner-trainers I know.

hth,

Tami

On 07/14/2015 09:03 PM, Debby Phillips via nagdu wrote:
> Dogs in training have no rights under the ADA.  They may be banned, it 
> depends on the places where people want to take their pups in training.
> I have mixed feelings about this.  On the one hand, how do puppies 
> learn good behavior? But sometimes pups, when they get excited, have
> accidents.  Or other things.  So I guess I'm okay with the law.    Debby
> and Nova
>
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