[nagdu] Fw: Proposed Act Regarding Service Dogs from the stateof Maine.

Sun Mar 1 23:49:12 UTC 2015

My concern is…who would this “judge” be, and with what qualifications? Given that there are those, certainly not all, in established programs who are hostile to the very idea of owner trainers, and that it’s in the schools’ best interests to protect their ability to “certify”, what would prevent schools appointed to be the judge of such a thing from drawing up criteria that would be stacked against owner trainers? Nope, no paranoia here. What about other disabiltiies, given the wide variety of tasks that dogs are trained to do? Does each broad set of tasks get its own pool of judges? Sounds like a nightmare to me.

— 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: buddy at brannan.name

> On Mar 1, 2015, at 3:46 PM, Vivianna via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I, unfortunately see that the need for some sort of regulation is needed.
> there are more and more folks bringing their pets around and saying that they are service dogs and, getting away with it.
> I was at the grocery store a couple days ago and, some woman had her little tiny dog in her cart.  of course, it was barking and growling at my dog.
> also, many other types of dogs must be certified and show papers that say such.  for example, police dogs, search and rescue dogs, therapy dogs, even CGC dogs have to be certified.
> i have seen several so-called guide dogs that were just half-trained pets as well.
> yes, you can get a dog from a school and still have a completely misbehaved animal if you are not a good handler but, at least, that dog was once trained and, should have the correct temperament.
> also, i think that businesses should be made aware of the fact that they can ask for a misbehaved dog to be removed.
> it’s a hard one to call though.
> maybe something like where, as an owner-trainer, you could demonstrate your dog’s work for a trainer or judge of some sort.
> i would have had no problems demonstrating my two owner-trained dogs for anybody. they were both great workers.
> 
> Vivianna
> 
>> On Mar 1, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Julie J. via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> No one evaluates my dog, but me, at least with the last ones.  Jetta was trained by someone else, so we have her opinion and mine.
>> 
>> I do a lot of work at blindness events, with my state agency, attend NFB state conventions, sometimes the ACB state convention and I have a very good friend who is a certified O&M teacher.   There have been a lot of people, people who know about how guide dogs work and what they do, see me work my dogs.   I am quite often the one they go to with guide dog questions.
>> 
>> Regarding the bigger picture...I have known for some time, or have felt, that we are getting to a place where some sort of regulation is eminent. There are too many people, making too many claims of questionable facts and way too many ill behaved dogs. I don't think it is the outright fakers that are the problem.  I think those are actually a very small number and are pretty obvious.  What I think is the real problem is folks who don't understand what a disability is and claim to have one, when what they really have is poor self management, poor decision making skills and an inflated sense of what the word impairment means.  Please don't go off on me about how there are lots of people with legitimate service dogs in this category. I am in no way saying that psychiatric conditions cannot be disabilities, absolutely they can.  What I see a lot of is things like, "My Pooky makes grocery shopping more pleasant and less stressful."   To me, that doesn't sound like a disability.  It sounds normal.  Seriously I just got home from the grocery store and less stress is a wonderful thing, but if that were my disability, I'd make it a point to go on Wednesday at 10 p.m. when I'd be the only person in the store.
>> 
>> It's the people with only the mildest of unpleasant life circumstances that choose to haul their half trained dog into public because of their perception that the dog helps them that is the real problem. These people really believe they have a disability and they really believe their dog is trained.  That is their reality and there is no education that will ever change that perception.
>> 
>> As I see it there are only really two ways to go to address this whole issue.
>> 1. We can have the government come up with some sort of elaborate system of determining disability.  Medical doctors are not in a position to do this. They are good at diagnosing medical conditions, but disability is how that condition affects you on a daily basis.  A doctor can diagnose that a person has arthritis, but as we all know most people who have arthritis are not disabled.  There are some who could be considered disabled because of arthritis though.  Doctors are not trained in this area.  Occupational therapists or rehabilitation counselors are in a better position to make this determination.  The social security determination is a close, but not perfect determination, because it only addresses disability as it relates to paid employment.  There are disabled people who do not qualify for social security.
>> 
>> 2. We can regulate the dogs.  This one has so many problems.  I'm not even sure where to begin.  This seems to be the route everyone wants to take though.  Any test is only going to evaluate the dog on that day in those particular conditions and no test is going to be 100%.  There's also the cost factor.  Who is going to do the test?  Who is going to pay for it? What happens if the dog later misbehaves, is the tester held liable? How long is the approval good for?
>> 
>> or perhaps there needs to be some sort of combination of the two approaches. I don't know.  I do know that if we, as disabled people with legitimate service dogs, don't proactively work on something fair to everyone, enforceable and feasible, we are going to get the short end of the stick.
>> 
>> Julie
>> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now available! Get the book here:
>> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
>> Visit my new website on developing courage and living authentically:
>> http://www.falling-up.com
>> -----Original Message----- From: Bridget Walker via nagdu
>> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2015 1:02 PM
>> To: Sherry Gomes ; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: Proposed Act Regarding Service Dogs from the stateof Maine.
>> 
>> I don't see it as someone trying to diminish our rights. I do recognize the owner training question and I just do not know the answer. I asked this question time and time again let's see if I can get some feedback this time.
>> I do not want to set anyone off on the list so please understand this is just to better understand everyone's side. We all know how a guide dog is evaluated at a training program so I will not get in to it. I want to know who determines when and at what point an owner trained guide dog is ready? How is this dog evaluated? Multiple people evaluate a program dog, is it a here say from one person, or do multiple people with a background in the work of guide dog training see the team?
>> I'm taking a huge dive here but, I hope someone can see the Devils advocate and educate. I know there are some very great individuals who owner train. Please apply this to all areas not just guide work. How does anyone decide between fake and real service dogs? Anyone can get a dog to follow a few commands. Anyone can go buy some equipment off of eBay. Anyone can get a doctors note. How is the public to know?
>> I always thought people would get it that a harness is used with a guide dog. This is not the case anymore. There is to much between fake and real dogs.
>> Another point I want to bring up is why doesn't anyone do anything about those people who go overboard. Those people who constantly through documentation and have every vest and patch ever made to "prove they have a service dog." When you have to go that far everyone knows it's an act. We need a balance.
>> I am sure tired of people in New York and New Jersey abusing the ADA. Some people may say we choose to use guide dogs as if we don't need them. You know what, my guide dog has made my life 1,000,000 times better. Having my guide dog should always be a right and NEVER a privilege.
>> Bridget
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Mar 1, 27 Heisei, at 11:36 AM, Sherry Gomes via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I got this off another list. Another state trying to diminish our rights.
>>> 
>>> Below is the text of a bill that is being presented to the state of Maine legislature in the near future.  Again, this is very concerning, much like the recent Arizona bill that failed.  If states keep presenting bill’s such as these, I’m afraid one will get passed and negatively impact the rights of legitimate service dog teams.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 127th MAINE LEGISLATURE
>>> 
>>> FIRST REGULAR SESSION-2015
>>> 
>>> Legislative Document No. 547
>>> 
>>> H.P.
>>> 
>>> 371 House of Representatives, February 26, 2015
>>> 
>>> An Act Regarding Service Dogs
>>> 
>>> Reference to the Committee on Agriculture, Conservation and Forestry suggested and
>>> 
>>> ordered printed.
>>> 
>>> 49
>>> 
>>> ROBERT B. HUNT
>>> 
>>> Clerk
>>> 
>>> Presented by Representative CAMPBELL of Orrington. (BY REQUEST)
>>> 
>>> Cosponsored by Senator SAVIELLO of Franklin and
>>> 
>>> Representatives: DOORE of Augusta, LAJOIE of Lewiston, MAKER of Calais, NADEAU of
>>> 
>>> Winslow, STANLEY of Medway, TUELL of East Machias.
>>> 
>>> Printed on recycled paper
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> table with 2 columns and 33 rows
>>> 
>>> 1
>>> 
>>> Be it enacted by the People of the State of Maine as follows:
>>> 
>>> 2
>>> 
>>> Sec. 1. 7 MRSA §3922, sub-§4, as amended by PL 2007, c. 664, §11, is further
>>> 
>>> 3
>>> 
>>> amended to read:
>>> 
>>> 4
>>> 
>>> 4. Service dogs. If a service dog has not been previously registered or licensed by
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> the municipal clerk to whom the application is being made, the clerk may not register the
>>> 
>>> 6
>>> 
>>> dog nor issue to its owner or keeper a license and tag that identifies the dog as a service
>>> 
>>> 7
>>> 
>>> dog unless the applicant presents written evidence to the municipal clerk that the dog
>>> 
>>> 8
>>> 
>>> meets the definition of "service dog." For the purpose of this subsection "written
>>> 
>>> 9
>>> 
>>> evidence" means a service dog certification form approved by the department in
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> consultation with the Maine Human Rights Commission. The service dog certification
>>> 
>>> 11
>>> 
>>> form must include a letter signed by a physician, psychologist, physician assistant or
>>> 
>>> 12
>>> 
>>> nurse practitioner indicating that the owner or keeper or a member of the owner's or
>>> 
>>> 13
>>> 
>>> keeper's household requires the service dog and a certification or other document
>>> 
>>> 14
>>> 
>>> indicating that the service dog has completed training from an established service animal
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> training organization or has been evaluated by a certified animal trainer and found to have
>>> 
>>> 16
>>> 
>>> a sound temperament suitable for a service dog.
>>> 
>>> 17
>>> 
>>> Sec. 2. 7 MRSA §3923-B, sub-§1-A is enacted to read:
>>> 
>>> 18
>>> 
>>> 1-A. Service dog registration tag. In accordance with subsection 1, the department
>>> 
>>> 19
>>> 
>>> shall ensure that, with regard to the registration and licensing of a service dog, the service
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> dog's registration tag clearly indicates that the dog is a service animal pursuant to Title 5,
>>> 
>>> 21
>>> 
>>> section 4553, subsection 9-E. The department shall devise a method of ensuring that a
>>> 
>>> 22
>>> 
>>> service dog's registration tag is clearly visible to the public.
>>> 
>>> 23
>>> 
>>> SUMMARY
>>> 
>>> 24
>>> 
>>> This bill requires that an individual registering a service dog present to the municipal
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> clerk a letter signed by a physician, psychologist, physician assistant or nurse practitioner
>>> 
>>> 26
>>> 
>>> indicating that the individual or a member of the individual's household requires the
>>> 
>>> 27
>>> 
>>> service dog and a certification or other document indicating that the service dog has
>>> 
>>> 28
>>> 
>>> completed training from an established service animal training organization or has been
>>> 
>>> 29
>>> 
>>> evaluated by a certified animal trainer and found to have a sound temperament suitable
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> for a service dog. It also requires the Department of Agriculture, Conservation and
>>> 
>>> 31
>>> 
>>> Forestry to ensure that the registration tag of a service dog clearly indicates that the dog is
>>> 
>>> 32
>>> 
>>> a service animal and to devise a method of ensuring that a service dog's registration tag is
>>> 
>>> 33
>>> 
>>> visible to the public.
>>> 
>>> table end
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Page 1 -127LR0304(01)-1
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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