[nagdu] People with sight getting guide dogs: was Reasons forchoosing a particular guy dog school

Wed Mar 25 15:14:12 UTC 2015

I'm trying to understand this.  It sounds like you are mad at their not 
using the dog's training to it's fullest and the piss poor attitudes some 
people have shown you.  those things are very understandable.  I'd be pissed 
if someone was upset with me because I couldn't read a sign or read a label. 
What I don't understand is how the amount of vision a person has figures 
into this.  a totally blind person can get a guide dog so they have a nicely 
behaved pet.  I know people with a lot of vision that get lost and trip over 
stuff frequently and I know totally blind people who go and do whatever 
whenever without difficulty.  I really think it's more about skills and a 
positive attitude than the exact visual acuity.  I do think the schools 
could do a better job of screening people, but my concern is more about how 
a dog would help the person, how a dog fits into their life, their ability 
to care for and manage the dog than it is about exact visual ability.

Speaking from my own personal experience.  I think a dog would have been an 
absolute life changer if I had one when I first crossed the threshold into 
legal blindness.  I had zero skills and was afraid to leave the house by 
myself.  If I had a guide dog back then I would have felt safer in leaving 
the house and like I could go places by myself.  Probably it would have also 
interfered with me developing those skills in myself though.  I think if I 
had gotten a dog early in my blindness I would have attributed my 
independence to the dog and not myself.  After all it would have still been 
me directing the dog, but I was young and scared and the dog would have been 
a life boat of sorts.  Now it's 20 plus years later and I have pretty good 
blindness skills and next door to no vision.  My vision is now the right eye 
only and is between hand motion and light perception.   I  choose to work a 
dog because it is way more convenient and  because I prefer it, but if my 
dog suddenly got sick or decided that guiding wasn't her thing, I wouldn't 
be trapped in my house.  I could pick up my cane and continue on with my 
life.

I don't know.  In reading your post, it really does sound like you are mad 
about how you've been treated by sighted people because of your being 
totally blind.  That's understandable , but is it a reason to be mad at them 
for their level of vision.

Julie
Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now 
available! Get the book here:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
Visit my new website on developing courage and living authentically:
http://www.falling-up.com
-----Original Message----- 
From: S L Johnson via nagdu
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:15 AM
To: Applebutter Hill ; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide 
Dog Users
Subject: [nagdu] People with sight getting guide dogs: was Reasons 
forchoosing a particular guy dog school

Dona and all:

I just had to respond to this.  I remember well the mid 70s and the argument
of partially sighted people getting guide dogs.  As a total, I am adamantly
apposed to people with sight having guide dogs.  I remember having to be on
a waiting list while sighted people were given dogs before those of us with
no sight.  I've had classes where some people had so much sight they would
make comments on what my dog was doing from a long distance away.  On
classes at GDF I found students who were reading the signs on buildings as
we drove down the road.  To me, someone with that much sight doesn't need a
dog.  I was next to a partial when we were relieving the dogs and she
laughed at my attempts to clean up after a dog who tended to move around as
she relieved herself, making my cleaning up extremely difficult.  I got so
mad that I told her since she could see so well, then she could pick it up
for me.  I remember when I got Tara from GDF and we were in the mall.  A
trainer got upset when I and another total got lost.  Another trainer said
well, if These two had as much sight as the rest of them, then maybe they
wouldn't have gotten lost.   Those sighted students were able to read all
the signs and see to find their way back to the food court.  I once lived in
an area where there was a high partial with a guide dog.  I would go into
the store and asked for someone to help me find what I wanted.  The manager
asked why my dog was too stupid to help me.  He said this other customer
with her dog never needed help.  I later found out she was just on the
border of legal blindness and could see to read everything on the shelves.
I was legally blind once and even if I'd been old enough, I never would have
considered a dog until I lost all my sight.  I will agree, some people have
so little vision that it doesn't help them so, a dog is very helpful but,
for others, it is a waste of a well trained dog that should go to someone
who really needs it.  I have heard this same thing from many trainers.  They
hate to see their dogs go to a high partial who only wants a well trained
pet they can take everywhere.  I know this will make a lot of you angry but,
I'm sick and tired of partially sighted people pretending they are really
blind.

Sandra and Eva

-----Original Message----- 
From: Applebutter Hill via nagdu
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2015 5:26 PM
To: 'Tara Briggs' ; 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Reasons for choosing a particular guy dog school

Tara,
I went to GDF in '71, because an instructor came to the college I was
attending and asked the Dean of Women if anyone on campus might benefit from
their services. I was in denial about how blind I was, so I talked to him
politely, took the application and had a rant about the indignaty of it all
with my friends.

My friends weren't as mortified that anyone would consider me a candidate
for a guide dog. I moved forward because one reminded me that I liked dogs
and held out the carrot that if it didn't work as a guide dog I would still
have a dog.

When I told my rehab counsellor I was going, he wrote and called the school
repeatedly telling them why I should not be given a dog. I had some vision
in the daytime; I was a "girl" and "girls" shouldn't go out at night anyway;
Seeing Eye and Leader Dog would never have approved a "partial" for
training, and so on.

The last call came while I was already on class and I was called into the
Director of Trainings office, where I was sure I was going to hear that they
had decided to send me home. John Byfield  simply assured me that he had
told my counsellor that the school was committed to training me and didn't
agree with his assessment of my needs. I was one of the first students who
was not totally blind, and there was a lot all of us had to learn about
training a person with some usable sight to use a guide dog, and in those
days, no other school was training people with some sight. One of the GDF
grads wrote a book about her GDF guide Brandy. The grad had been an art
teacher, and Seeing Eye refused to take her because she didn't have a job.
GDF didn't look at things the same way as other schools.

GDF's John Biegel  pioneered the use of the offset handle, and by the time I
got my second dog in '83, it was standard equipment. It was a huge
improvement and IMO shortened the adjustment time for my second dog. I take
it for granted now.

I can't remember when they switched to offering ownership, but I do "own"
Hunter now. It was never much of an issue to me, because they always had my
back.

GDF has changed much over the years - great advances in the physical
facility, great puppy program, and on the other hand too much management.
But, so far, despite my protestations about this or that, they have not
given me any reason why I should jump ship.
Donna & Hunter

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara Briggs via
nagdu
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 1:33 PM
To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
Subject: [nagdu] Reasons for choosing a particular guy dog school

Hi all:
I thought it would be interesting to find out why people chose to go to the
various guy Doug schools? If you train your own dog, what factors
contributed towards this decision? I'll start by answering my own question,
I went to the Seeing Eye because I like their ownership policy. I had also
attended a couple of their free breakfast at national conventions and
thought the people seemed really nice. I'm looking forward to everyone's
replies!
Tara Briggs

Sent from my iPhone
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