[nagdu] People with sight getting guide dogs: was Reasons forchoosing a particular guy dog school
milissa61
milissa61 at gmail.com
Wed Mar 25 18:07:17 UTC 2015
Hi All,
I am totally blind and use a guide dog. I do not think that people who have
some useable vision are better off with their dogs when it comes to training
and maintaining the training. As a total, I have no problem feeling when my
dog is sniffing or acting inappropriately. Yes, a person with useable vision
would see the behavior and perhaps react faster but, as a totally blind
person, I'm just as capable and effective at picking up what my dog is doing
and correcting the behavior.
I think that if someone has useable vision and they need a dog, by all
means, they should have one. Just because one is totally blind, does not
mean we can't do the same things when it comes to our dogs as legally blind
people can do. Quite frankly, I think many totals like to complain about how
difficult things are and if they just had some sight, things would be
easier. That isn't true. I'd much rather be a total and not have to rely on
vision that may or may not work at a given time.
A dog is a lot of responsibility whether you are totally blind or legally
blind. I don't think the schools train the dogs to work with only legally
blind people. If you are a total and your dog is doing things you're not
aware of, perhaps the problem lies with you and you are not doing due
diligence in terms of being aware of your dog at all times. You don't need
any vision to properly handle and maintain the training of your dog. I have
had four guide dogs and one was a scavenger like I have never seen before or
since. As far as the scavenger went, I knew what he was doing all the time,
I just couldn't control it because he actually wasn't interested in being a
guide dog anymore. But, to say that a totally blind person has more
difficulty picking up on what your dog is doing and correcting it than a
legally blind person is simply untrue.
Just my two cents.
Milissa
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
via nagdu
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 11:05 AM
To: S L Johnson; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] People with sight getting guide dogs: was Reasons
forchoosing a particular guy dog school
What bugs me is what I perceive to be training dogs as if users will have
some usable sight. I call it "guide dogs for people who need glasses".
Like, the trainer could see something on the ground the dog might go for and
be ready to stop him, but I can't see what's on the ground, and it didn't
take long for Krokus to figure that out and take advantage.
Or my previous trainer yelling at me when we came up to some bushes and Ben
started sniffing them. Why didn't I know those bushes were coming up!
Well, oddly enough, I can't see them, and I can't remember the location of
every bush along a route. Grrrr.
If dogs were trained as if every user were totally blind, they'd work fine
for everyone. But I don't think they're being trained that way anymore.
Tracy
----- Original Message -----
From: "S L Johnson via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "Applebutter Hill" <applebutterhill at gmail.com>; "NAGDU Mailing List,the
National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 10:15 AM
Subject: [nagdu] People with sight getting guide dogs: was Reasons
forchoosing a particular guy dog school
> Dona and all:
>
> I just had to respond to this. I remember well the mid 70s and the
> argument of partially sighted people getting guide dogs. As a total,
> I am adamantly apposed to people with sight having guide dogs. I
> remember having to be on a waiting list while sighted people were
> given dogs before those of us with no sight. I've had classes where
> some people had so much sight they would make comments on what my dog
> was doing from a long distance away. On classes at GDF I found
> students who were reading the signs on buildings as we drove down the
> road. To me, someone with that much sight doesn't need a dog. I was
> next to a partial when we were relieving the dogs and she laughed at
> my attempts to clean up after a dog who tended to move around as she
> relieved herself, making my cleaning up extremely difficult. I got so
> mad that I told her since she could see so well, then she could pick
> it up for me. I remember when I got Tara from GDF and we were in the
> mall. A trainer got upset when I and another total got lost. Another
trainer said well, if These two had as much sight as
> the rest of them, then maybe they wouldn't have gotten lost. Those
> sighted students were able to read all the signs and see to find their
> way back to the food court. I once lived in an area where there was a
> high partial with a guide dog. I would go into the store and asked
> for someone to help me find what I wanted. The manager asked why my
> dog was too stupid to help me. He said this other customer with her
> dog never needed help. I later found out she was just on the border
> of legal blindness and could see to read everything on the shelves. I
> was legally blind once and even if I'd been old enough, I never would
> have considered a dog until I lost all my sight. I will agree, some
> people have so little vision that it doesn't help them so, a dog is
> very helpful but, for others, it is a waste of a well trained dog that
should go to someone who really needs it.
> I have heard this same thing from many trainers. They hate to see
> their dogs go to a high partial who only wants a well trained pet they
> can take everywhere. I know this will make a lot of you angry but,
> I'm sick and tired of partially sighted people pretending they are really
blind.
>
> Sandra and Eva
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Applebutter Hill via nagdu
> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2015 5:26 PM
> To: 'Tara Briggs' ; 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of
> Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Reasons for choosing a particular guy dog school
>
> Tara,
> I went to GDF in '71, because an instructor came to the college I was
> attending and asked the Dean of Women if anyone on campus might
> benefit from their services. I was in denial about how blind I was, so
> I talked to him politely, took the application and had a rant about
> the indignaty of it all with my friends.
>
> My friends weren't as mortified that anyone would consider me a
> candidate for a guide dog. I moved forward because one reminded me
> that I liked dogs and held out the carrot that if it didn't work as a
> guide dog I would still have a dog.
>
> When I told my rehab counsellor I was going, he wrote and called the
> school repeatedly telling them why I should not be given a dog. I had
> some vision in the daytime; I was a "girl" and "girls" shouldn't go
> out at night anyway; Seeing Eye and Leader Dog would never have
> approved a "partial" for training, and so on.
>
> The last call came while I was already on class and I was called into
> the Director of Trainings office, where I was sure I was going to hear
> that they had decided to send me home. John Byfield simply assured me
> that he had told my counsellor that the school was committed to
> training me and didn't agree with his assessment of my needs. I was
> one of the first students who was not totally blind, and there was a
> lot all of us had to learn about training a person with some usable
> sight to use a guide dog, and in those days, no other school was
> training people with some sight. One of the GDF grads wrote a book
> about her GDF guide Brandy. The grad had been an art teacher, and
> Seeing Eye refused to take her because she didn't have a job.
> GDF didn't look at things the same way as other schools.
>
> GDF's John Biegel pioneered the use of the offset handle, and by the
> time I got my second dog in '83, it was standard equipment. It was a
> huge improvement and IMO shortened the adjustment time for my second
> dog. I take it for granted now.
>
> I can't remember when they switched to offering ownership, but I do "own"
> Hunter now. It was never much of an issue to me, because they always
> had my back.
>
> GDF has changed much over the years - great advances in the physical
> facility, great puppy program, and on the other hand too much management.
> But, so far, despite my protestations about this or that, they have
> not given me any reason why I should jump ship.
> Donna & Hunter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara Briggs
> via nagdu
> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 1:33 PM
> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
> Subject: [nagdu] Reasons for choosing a particular guy dog school
>
> Hi all:
> I thought it would be interesting to find out why people chose to go
> to the various guy Doug schools? If you train your own dog, what
> factors contributed towards this decision? I'll start by answering my
> own question, I went to the Seeing Eye because I like their ownership
> policy. I had also attended a couple of their free breakfast at
> national conventions and thought the people seemed really nice. I'm
> looking forward to everyone's replies!
> Tara Briggs
>
> Sent from my iPhone
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