[nagdu] People with sight getting guide dogs: was Reasons for choosing a particular guy dog school

Thu Mar 26 13:47:29 UTC 2015

I think it is a bad idea any time we have a one fit approach to
anything.  I need a longer cane when I use one because I over walk the
"normal" cane provided by an O&M instructor.  Luckily, I had a great
instructor who saw that right away and provided the longer cane. I am
also pretty tall so the conventional wisdom would be to give me a
taller dog.  Only 1 of my 5 dogs has fit that description.  Most of
the time I have received one of the smaller dogs in class because my
needs and the strengths of the dog were a great match.  In fact, they
have asked me how I felt about a smaller dog.  My answer is always
that I want the best dog for me.

On 3/25/15, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 	I don't know, O&M instructors have told me my cane is too long. In
> my way of thinking, they don't get a vote. I prefer a long cane, as tall as
> I am. They wanted me to use one that came to my chest.
> I think your problem is that you encountered some not so nice people,
> coupled with some not so sensitive trainers.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of S L Johnson via
> nagdu
> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 11:11 AM
> To: Cindy Ray; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] People with sight getting guide dogs: was Reasons for
> choosing a particular guy dog school
>
> Yes, but just because someone is legally blind or visually impaired, it
> doesn't mean they really need a dog to travel safely.  I had an O&M
> instructor tell me she was always being asked to write recommendations for
> partially sighted people to get dogs when her evaluation showed they didn't
> even need to use a cane.  To me, that is wrong.  Someone with that much
> sight does not really need a guide dog.  the waiting lists wouldn't b as
> long if those with too much sight were not taking dogs away from those of
> us
> who really need them.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cindy Ray via nagdu
> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 10:55 AM
> To: 'Shannon Dyer' ; 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
> Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] People with sight getting guide dogs: was Reasonsfor
> choosing a particular guy dog school
>
> First of all, I would see that if a person is getting a dog, he/she is
> blind
> in the most legal terms. There are people who cannot get about as a sighted
> person but who can read as if they had no visual loss, and there are people
> who can travel about just fine, or at the very least reasonably well, but
> cannot read a printed page. They are not sighted people getting dogs. They
> are people who would be considered blind, or at the very least visually
> impaired. Sighted people cannot get a dog at a guide dog school. Waiting is
> hard, especially if you have had a dog and are very much accustomed to
> using
> one and would prefer to get on back to that, or if you are new at it. But
> sometimes the waiting is rewarded with a dog that you are glad you had the
> opportunity to receive beyond belief. I got a dog once and I had her for
> eleven months. I ended up going back to the school, and I got Spencer, my
> Golden Retriever. One of the instructors said that we were meant to be
> together. We hit it off right away. He was too young yet to be a guide dog
> when I got the first one. When I got Wayne, Fisher was a puppy, but two
> years later when I finally returned Wayne, Fisher was ready, and he's been
> a
> good match. Actually, when I got Wayne Fisher was not born yet. Anyway, I
> think we just have to learn the virtue of patience.
> Cindy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Dyer via
> nagdu
> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:40 AM
> To: S L Johnson; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] People with sight getting guide dogs: was Reasons for
> choosing a particular guy dog school
>
> The world of partial vision has always been confusing to me. I know a lot
> depends on things like lighting and contrast, and I'm sure a host of other
> things I don't know about. I do know that many people have limits on what
> and when they can see well. I'm not sure this means they're pretending to
> be
> blind.
>
> I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with partially sighted people who have
> dogs. It sounds like the fault lies with those specific people, and not
> with
> the partially sighted population as a whole.
>
> As for waiting to get a dog, we all have to wait sometimes. Maybe we wait
> because a school doesn't have the right dog for us. Maybe we wait because
> of
> something in our own schedules. I'm just not sure it's the fault of the
> people who are receiving dogs while we wait.
>
> Shannon and the Acelet
> On Mar 25, 2015, at 10:15 AM, S L Johnson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Dona and all:
>>
>> I just had to respond to this.  I remember well the mid 70s and the
>> argument of partially sighted people getting guide dogs.  As a total,
>> I am adamantly apposed to people with sight having guide dogs.  I
>> remember having to be on a waiting list while sighted people were
>> given dogs before those of us with no sight.  I've had classes where
>> some people had so much sight they would make comments on what my dog
>> was doing from a long distance away.  On classes at GDF I found
>> students who were reading the signs on buildings as we drove down the
>> road.  To me, someone with that much sight doesn't need a dog.  I was
>> next to a partial when we were relieving the dogs and she laughed at
>> my attempts to clean up after a dog who tended to move around as she
>> relieved herself, making my cleaning up extremely difficult.  I got so
>> mad that I told her since she could see so well, then she could pick
>> it up for me.  I remember when I got Tara from GDF and we were in the
>> mall.  A trainer got upset when I and another total got lost.  Another
> trainer said well, if These two had as much sight as the rest of them, then
> maybe they
>> wouldn't have gotten lost.   Those sighted students were able to read all
>> the signs and see to find their way back to the food court.  I once
>> lived in an area where there was a high partial with a guide dog.  I
>> would go into the store and asked for someone to help me find what I
>> wanted.  The manager asked why my dog was too stupid to help me.  He
>> said this other customer with her dog never needed help.  I later
>> found out she was just on the border of legal blindness and could see
>> to
> read everything on the shelves.
>> I was legally blind once and even if I'd been old enough, I never
>> would have considered a dog until I lost all my sight.  I will agree,
>> some people have so little vision that it doesn't help them so, a dog
>> is very helpful but, for others, it is a waste of a well trained dog
>> that should go to someone who really needs it.  I have heard this same
>> thing from many trainers.  They hate to see their dogs go to a high
>> partial who only wants a well trained pet they can take everywhere.  I
>> know this will make a lot of you angry but, I'm sick and tired of
>> partially sighted people pretending they are really blind.
>>
>> Sandra and Eva
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Applebutter Hill via nagdu
>> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2015 5:26 PM
>> To: 'Tara Briggs' ; 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of
>> Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Reasons for choosing a particular guy dog school
>>
>> Tara,
>> I went to GDF in '71, because an instructor came to the college I was
>> attending and asked the Dean of Women if anyone on campus might
>> benefit from their services. I was in denial about how blind I was, so
>> I talked to him politely, took the application and had a rant about
>> the indignaty of it all with my friends.
>>
>> My friends weren't as mortified that anyone would consider me a
>> candidate for a guide dog. I moved forward because one reminded me
>> that I liked dogs and held out the carrot that if it didn't work as a
>> guide dog I would still have a dog.
>>
>> When I told my rehab counsellor I was going, he wrote and called the
>> school repeatedly telling them why I should not be given a dog. I had
>> some vision in the daytime; I was a "girl" and "girls" shouldn't go
>> out at night anyway; Seeing Eye and Leader Dog would never have
>> approved a "partial" for training, and so on.
>>
>> The last call came while I was already on class and I was called into
>> the Director of Trainings office, where I was sure I was going to hear
>> that they had decided to send me home. John Byfield  simply assured me
>> that he had told my counsellor that the school was committed to
>> training me and didn't agree with his assessment of my needs. I was
>> one of the first students who was not totally blind, and there was a
>> lot all of us had to learn about training a person with some usable
>> sight to use a guide dog, and in those days, no other school was
>> training people with some sight. One of the GDF grads wrote a book
>> about her GDF guide Brandy. The grad had been an art teacher, and
>> Seeing
> Eye refused to take her because she didn't have a job.
>> GDF didn't look at things the same way as other schools.
>>
>> GDF's John Biegel  pioneered the use of the offset handle, and by the
>> time I got my second dog in '83, it was standard equipment. It was a
>> huge improvement and IMO shortened the adjustment time for my second
>> dog. I take it for granted now.
>>
>> I can't remember when they switched to offering ownership, but I do "own"
>> Hunter now. It was never much of an issue to me, because they always
>> had my back.
>>
>> GDF has changed much over the years - great advances in the physical
>> facility, great puppy program, and on the other hand too much management.
>> But, so far, despite my protestations about this or that, they have
>> not given me any reason why I should jump ship.
>> Donna & Hunter
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara Briggs
>> via nagdu
>> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 1:33 PM
>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
>> Subject: [nagdu] Reasons for choosing a particular guy dog school
>>
>> Hi all:
>> I thought it would be interesting to find out why people chose to go
>> to the various guy Doug schools? If you train your own dog, what
>> factors contributed towards this decision? I'll start by answering my
>> own question, I went to the Seeing Eye because I like their ownership
>> policy. I had also attended a couple of their free breakfast at
>> national conventions and thought the people seemed really nice. I'm
>> looking forward to everyone's replies!
>> Tara Briggs
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/applebutterhill%40g
>> mail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sljohnson25%40comca
>> st.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/solsticesinger%40gm
>> ail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sljohnson25%40comcast.net
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marianne%40denningweb.com
>

-- 
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053