[nagdu] update

S L Johnson SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
Wed May 27 19:59:36 UTC 2015


Hello:

I do not defend Pilot Dogs use of the spikes, I only described them because 
somebody asked about them.  My dog walks at my pace without any pull so, I 
have no need of any correction for pulling.  I was given a set but have 
never used them.  I've seen people object to head collars because they 
resemble muzzles.  I've known some people to use spiked collars ,high 
collars, and even shock collars  for corrections while others of us strongly 
disagree with their use.  I am sure students are advised to try all other 
methods before resorting to putting in the spiked chest pad.  If you have 
seen a dog has been injured, then it is possible that is not the right dog 
for that person or the dog needs further training.  It may be a last ditch 
effort before giving up on a match if all other aspects of the dogs work are 
good.  I am very glad that my dog was matched to my pace and abilities 
perfectly.  All she ever needs is verbal corrections.  I am sure all of us 
have some things we don't agree with when we go through training.  Once we 
get home, we can use those training tools we prefer.

Sandra and Eva


-----Original Message----- 
From: Abigail Bulling via nagdu
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 9:16 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Abigail Bolling
Subject: Re: [nagdu] update

Hi,
Nimer I think you're correct about the chest pads being used when a handler 
has been given a dog that is too much for them to reasonably handle. At 
least, that is what I've seen and that is my humble opinion. But, on the 
other side, it's not comfortable for the dog. A lot of times, I have seen 
dogs with sores on their chest from where the spikes have done into their 
skin. This I feel is a very inhumane way to treat an animal, especially when 
you're expecting the animal to help you.
Again, this is just my opinion.
Abigail Bolling

Wright State University-2019: Social Work

"Keep a smile on your face and a song in your heart, and just let the music 
play." (Julie Anderson Diamond)

> On May 27, 2015, at 8:18 AM, Nimer Jaber via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> This is just another tool that an individual uses to control unwanted 
> behavior.  I wouldn't use it, but nobody asks me to use it...Martingale 
> doesn't always work I find, and while most dogs respond to the gentle 
> leader positively, it just doesn't work for some dogs.  Still, it seems 
> like those people that are resorting to spikes are getting too much dog 
> and possibly can't handle what they are given...I could be way dead wrong, 
> but that's what it seems like to me.
>
> Thanks, and here's hoping you get things figured out soon.
>
>> On 5/27/2015 07:13, Abigail Bolling via nagdu wrote:
>> Wouldn't a gentle leader or a martingale do the same thing? Without 
>> digging spikes into the chest of the dog? Just a thought.
>>
>> Abigail Bolling
>>
>> Wright State University-2019: Social Work
>>
>> "Keep a smile on your face and a song in your heart, and just let the 
>> music play." (Julie Anderson Diamond)
>>
>>> On May 27, 2015, at 5:34 AM, Amber M via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Still issued to every grad but not required to be used unless instructed 
>>> to do so. Will say I was instructed to use mine and did so in class but 
>>> have removed and replaced with the plain piece of leather. Not that I 
>>> enjoyed using it at all but just saying once home can find other ways of 
>>> dealing with the pulling.
>>>
>>> Description is correct though.
>>>
>>> Amber
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On May 26, 2015, at 1:29 PM, Buddy Brannan via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A Pilot grad can correct me if I'm wrong, but.
>>>>
>>>> Pilot's harnesses have a feature that, to my knowledge, no other guide 
>>>> dog school's equipment has. (Well, the leashes do, too...the leashes 
>>>> are a bit longer than most, and can be made into an impromptu muzzle.) 
>>>> Anyway, there are two snaps on the chest strap. Normally, a piece of 
>>>> leather is snapped in between them, straight across. However, one can 
>>>> take that out and snap into its place a set of blunt prongs. I think 
>>>> the purpose of these is to discourage the dog from excessive/too hard 
>>>> of a pull. I believe these were issued at one time to all grads as a 
>>>> matter of course, but I don't think they are anymore, except in 
>>>> specific circumstances and if a trainer thinks a dog needs them very 
>>>> specifically. Pilot grads, please correct any factual errors on my 
>>>> part, but I *think* this is what Abby's talking about.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>>>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>>>> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On May 26, 2015, at 1:23 PM, Shannon Dyer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Abby,
>>>>>
>>>>> Whatâ?Ts a chest pad? Iâ?Tve never heard of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good luck with everything. Waiting can be torture.
>>>>>
>>>>> Shannon and the Acelet
>>>>>> On May 26, 2015, at 12:13 PM, Abigail Bolling via nagdu 
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> Well, I have a friend with me now, and we went on a walk on Saturday. 
>>>>>> A pretty long walkâ?¦ (about 3 miles to be exact.)
>>>>>> She saw first hand my problems with Jada.
>>>>>> An update about Leader. They want to evaluate Jada. I have called and 
>>>>>> told them that taking Jada to re-evaluate and return her to me (once 
>>>>>> again) will not be a good idea. Theyâ?Tve done this once with Her and 
>>>>>> she did not trust me afterward. I had to restart the bonding process, 
>>>>>> and I canâ?Tt afford to do that right now. So they are sending a 
>>>>>> trainer out to me next week.
>>>>>> I have spoken with Pilot and they are willing to accept me after I 
>>>>>> have a physical done. I have told pilot that I would attend their 
>>>>>> school as long as I would not be required to use the chest pads, 
>>>>>> which I do not agree with at all, and a shock collar will never be 
>>>>>> put on my dog. The student services rep I spoke with said those 
>>>>>> wouldnâ?Tt be a problem, so weâ?Tll see what happens. I am really 
>>>>>> hoping Leader will kind of, to put it bluntly, step it up a notch 
>>>>>> because I canâ?Tt afford to wait and mess around.
>>>>>> So anyway, Iâ?Tm a little frustrated, Jadaâ?Ts tired but she still 
>>>>>> wants to work and becomes a holy terror on four paws, so I work her 
>>>>>> or else my apartment will get destroyed. But I can personally say, I 
>>>>>> donâ?Tt like this waiting around. Anyway,
>>>>>> Another thing with Jada, I found another bump on her leg. About a 
>>>>>> year and a half or so ago, Jada had to have surgery for a fatty tumor 
>>>>>> in her legâ?¦ Well, it looks like the bump is back. Itâ?Ts very small 
>>>>>> and oblong, but itâ?Ts harder than the last one. It is just above her 
>>>>>> scarred area, so it may just be her muscle knotted up from the 
>>>>>> surgery. To get the last tumor out of her leg, the vet had to cut and 
>>>>>> go under her muscle, so it could be that too. But all I see is a bump 
>>>>>> that isnâ?Tt supposed to be there, and wasnâ?Tt there a week ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, those are the updates as of now. Iâ?Tll let yâ?Tall know if 
>>>>>> there are any other developments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Abby and Princess Jada.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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