[nagdu] Service Dog "Driver's License"?

[Cindy ray]

Ah, now I get where Wayne's message that seemed a little defensive came from. Debby, I can't remember Buddy ever being snide. I think we often get a little heated in our discussions of the following: owner training and certification, the right to own. These seems to be very emotional topics. I believe the day will come when there will be a certification process, and I know some folks who are blind and do not use dogs who believe this, too. There is coming to be a variety of dogs with a variety of uses. If that happened that we were to have certified dogs, then I would say there would have to be a certification board made up of handlers, providers, and maybe other interested parties. Maybe then you would have some kind of test that people have to pass every several years like they do with driver's licenses. Or, as Debby has said, maybe all dogs would just need to be allowed unless they come to be out of control. Thank God Fisher would be retired at that point. There may well be some folks who are training because they have an axe to grind with the schools; I haven't heard a lot of that here. If I were going to do it, I would do it for the sheer challenge of it, and I think accomplishing it would just be a phenomenal high, but I may be over romanticizing it. Havings said that, I would go back to the school where I have received all of my dogs, though there is another that I would be fascinated to attend. We all do what we do for a variety of reasons. I wouldn't go to a school that has graduation exercises and the pup raiser symbolically gives me the dog, but lots of folks love that. I do wish I could personally write my raiser personally and not have to send a letter to the school that they convey to that person after making sure I haven't indicated who I am, but that isn't an option, and it is just one thing. They give me an ID which I rarely use because I don't have to. I hope that doesn't change, but I can see that it might. But I think it bears considering how we would want it to be done should it occur and be proactive about making sure it doesn't and not waste effort on people's axes.
Cindy Lou Ray
cindayray at gmail.com


Cindy Lou Ray
Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 11, 2015, at 8:30 PM, Buddy Brannan via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Debbie,
> 
> Let me clarify a bit.
> 
> First, I have absolutely no problem with schools, program trained dogs, or the training the schools give their program trained dogs. None. At all. I'm not sure how much clearer I can be about that, and I've said so many, many times before. I have no beef with the schools and, in fact, have a great deal of respect for many of them, especially the one from where I got my current guide. I absolutely trust that the dog I would get form a program would be safe and effective, or else I'd go somewhere else. Fortunately, at least in the US, there are lots of places from which to choose. 
> 
> Where I don't trust *any* of the programs would be in drawing up fair and equitable certification criteria. Not only is it in their business interest to "corner the market" on the provision of guide dogs, there are certainly those in the profession who make it pretty clear how they feel about blind people daring to train their own guides. Certainly everyone's entitled to an opinion, but I don't trust anyone to look out for my interests where those interests may conflict with theirs. Would the schools absolutely draw up certification criteria that would, or could, unfairly discriminate against owner trainers, or even smaller programs? Maybe not, but the fact is, they easily *could* do so, and I don't see any particular reason that they'd have a reason not to. 
> 
> I can't speak for owner trainers in general, but I do not have, nor have I ever had, an axe to grind with guide dog training programs. My opinion on this really isn't even limited to those. In any case where some certifying body needs to be in place, I'd say the same thing: it cannot be composed solely of providers, because it couldn't be truly independent. 
> 
> In any case, this wasn't just my opinion because I decided to owner train. Fair's fair, really, and I don't see any reason why the programs would have a reason to protect, much less consider, the rights or capabilities of owner trainers. 
> 
> But really, I have one question. Why is this issue different from other issues? Why is it all right to "leave it up to the professionals" in this case, but on other matters, think NAC for instance, we're not content to do so? 
> 
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194 
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: buddy at brannan.name
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 11, 2015, at 9:12 PM, Debby Phillips <semisweetdebby at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Buddy, I have to respond to part of your message.  If I didn't trust my school to train my dog, I wouldn't go there.  I think (and I mean no disrespect, it's just an observation), that some of you who owner train have a thing against the schools.  And I actually think that's unfair.  People have been being guided well by "program" dogs as many of you refer to dogs from schools, very well for many many years.  You have the right to owner train your dog, and I have pretty much kept my opinion about owner training to myself.  I don't know what the answer is to certification, showing ID from schools, etc.  But I truly am tired of hearing about how the schools are untrustworthy, etc.  The schools provide a service, just like any other school or training option.  People can freely choose to change schools if they find that the one they have received their current dog from is not meeting their needs.  As per Florida's service dog law, I think that's a great law, and other states should pass these own.  We can do more to educate businesses about their rights.  We can do more to show people that REAL service dogs are trained, and won't poop in their stores, or whatever.  Sorry, but if you choose not to get your dog through a school, that's your choice, but please be respectful of those who do choose to get their dogs through schools.  I really don't appreciate the snide remarks.    Debby
> 
> 
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