[nagdu] Standing Heel position

Wed Nov 25 16:36:47 UTC 2015

Ann,

Thanks for that. It has never occurred to me to go beyond nose touch, 
but I can see where the rest would come in handy. I've been trying to 
think of something to teach our gang to counteract winter doldrums, so 
you've given me some good ideas.

Raven, I haven't had anything different than others have suggested about 
positioning, although your question has me paying attention to what I do 
with Loki. I use successive approximation and reward, so by now he's 
pretty good. I have a "position" command, which means stand beside me so 
that I can pick up the harness handle. That's different from heel, where 
he's further back, closer to the traditional heel position. I can keep 
track better if the dog's head is beside my leg, so that's where my dogs 
heel. Loki is still learning to stand in line nicely, so I do end up 
nudging him back into position with my hand then praising good position, 
or I have him go around and come back into position if he's gone too far 
off. I may try some of Ann's suggestions to refine that, though.

Let us know what you end up doing and how it works.

Tami

On 11/24/2015 09:15 PM, Ann Edie via nagdu wrote:
> Hi, Raven,
>
> What I did was first teach my guide to target my hand with her nose; then I
> taught her to target my hand with her chin, then with her forehead, then
> with each ear, then each shoulder, then with each hip. Once she had the idea
> of targeting my hand with one or two body parts, the rest came very easily.
> (I use click & treat, and she knows the process and is an eager learner.)
> I'm not luring with the treat in my hand; I'm just using my hand as a target
> for her to touch with the specific body part; then when she does, I click
> and treat. You can also have her put each knee or foot in your hand, but
> since Panda is a horse, I prefer to keep her feet on the ground. I do have a
> cue for her to pick up each of her feet for cleaning, though.
>
> Where I put my hand cues her as to which body part I want at first, and then
> I attach the word as part of the cue, such as "Nose touch" or "Shoulder
> touch". With each new body part I start by placing my hand just at the ends
> of her hair away from the body part, so that I can feel when she moves even
> the slightest bit into my hand. Then I gradually increase the distance she
> needs to move to bring the body part into my hand. Eventually, I can hold my
> hand down at her nose level, say "Nose touch," and she will come from across
> the room or across the yard to touch my hand with her nose. The hip and
> shoulder touches are great for maneuvering her around while grooming her or
> for positioning her when I'm standing or sitting. This is where I would use
> the "Hip touch" to get her to snug her hip in close to my left leg if she
> had swung out away from me while standing in line or in an open area. I just
> reach down with my left hand to about hip height and say "Hip touch", and
> she will swing her body around to bring the right hip to my hand (and my
> left side.)
>
> She has also been highly reinforced for coming into a nice tight heel
> position, with her shoulder or ribs touching my left leg, so she does that
> pretty automatically now.
>
> Body part targeting is both a fun game and a useful skill for both dogs and
> horses to know. So I hope you and your dog have fun with it and it helps him
> come into a nice tight heel position. Let me know if my explanation was not
> clear in some way.
>
> Have a happy Thanksgiving.
>
> Ann
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
> via nagdu
> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 5:33 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Raven Tolliver
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Standing Heel position
>
> Ann,
> I've never thought of or heard of the variation of targeting you've
> described.
>
> With this kind of targeting, would I get my dog to bring his hip closer by
> causing him to turn out left toward food reinforcement?
> Essentially, he moves his rear in toward me in order to get a treat I offer
> at his left ear.
> Hope that made sense.
> --
> Raven
> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
> www.1am-editing.com
>
> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you have or
> what you do.
>
> Naturally-reared guide dogs
> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>
> On 11/23/15, Ann Edie via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi, Raven,
>>
>> You could teach your dog(s) to target your hand (or knee) with various
>> parts of their bodies, such as their chin, ear, shoulder, or hip.
>> Obviously, for the behavior you are presently concerned about,
>> targeting the dog's right hip to your left leg or to your left hand
>> placed along or behind your left leg would achieve the desired
>> position. This way the dog will come to you instead of your having to
>> move the dog into position manually. And after he/she gets used to
>> targeting his/her hip to your leg, the behavior should become part of
>> the "heel" behavior.
>>
>> I expect you can work out the steps to train the body part targeting
>> behavior without further description. But if you want more details or
>> suggestions for a lesson plan, just let me know.
>>
>> Best,
>> Ann
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
>> Tolliver via nagdu
>> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 4:34 PM
>> To: nagdu
>> Cc: Raven Tolliver
>> Subject: [nagdu] Standing Heel position
>>
>> I struggle with this in my dog and with the finishing puppies at work.
>> How do you teach a dog to stand in heel position so that their
>> rear-end is not hanging out further than the rest of their body?
>>
>> My dog has done this for a long time, probably since I've had him, and
>> I always find myself scooting his butt in close so that his rear's not
>> out in an isle. It doesn't happen so much as when he has his booties
>> on. He'll bring his front half close, but leave his tail-end hanging
>> out in people's way in stores, malls, etc. With the boots on, he does
>> all sorts of funny positioning things, but this one gets to me the most.
>> I don't know how to show him not to do that without taking my hand and
>> pushing his butt in close.
>> Thanks.
>> --
>> Raven
>> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
>> www.1am-editing.com
>>
>> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you
>> have or what you do.
>>
>> Naturally-reared guide dogs
>> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>>
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>
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