[nagdu] Talking points for convos with training centers' directors

[Julie J.]

raven and all,

A big part of diplomacy is the willingness to see from the other person's 
perspective.  It is opening your mind to another viewpoint.   If you want to 
truly understand, then you have to have an attitude of openness and 
willingness to listen.

If you are so decided on a point that you can't bring yourself to be 
diplomatic, that's fine, just don't expect to have a productive encounter or 
get anywhere with the other person.  It might be better to let someone else 
who is less staunch handle it.

Your questions with my feedback:
*1. What is your center's policy on guide dog use during classes?*
Perhaps: I would like to understand what your policy is on attending your 
center with a guide dog. Could you tell me about that?
This is your first question.  It needs to be warm and inviting to get the 
conversation off to a good start.  If you begin with a demand for 
information or any sort of really strong question, it can be very off 
putting.  It can be difficult to recover from a bad start. Make your tone of 
voice and demeanor warm and inviting.

*2. In the past, did your center permit the use of a guide dog during 
classes?
(If so, why was this permissive policy reversed?*
Words like permissive and why will trigger strong emotions.  Most likely you 
will push the other person into a defensive position.  Perhaps: has this 
always been the policy?  Could you explain about what has changed over the 
years?

*or Why does your center prohibit the use of guide dogs during all classes?*
I'd skip this one entirely.  The answer to this question will naturally come 
up in the rest of your questions.  It will be better to let the other person 
address this in their own way naturally in the flow of the conversation. 
Asking it outright is a fairly aggressive conversational tactic.  You could 
ask something like this as a follow up question.  Perhaps: could you tell me 
more about that?  or how does that work?

*3. What difficulties or problems arise when teaching NFB philosophy
and independent living skills to a student using a guide dog?
and/or:
4. What specific concepts are impossible or challenging to teach to a
traveler using a guide dog rather than a cane or alongside a cane?*
Stay away from words that express extremes like impossible.  Let the other 
person have the freedom to express themselves openly without the need to 
defend their position.  If the point is to truly understand their position, 
then ask questions that invite rather than inflame.  Perhaps:  what are the 
specific concerns  with teaching your center curriculum to a student  if 
they were working a guide dog through their classes?  Then you might ask a 
follow up to this: are the concerns the same for independent travel class as 
for all the other classes?

*5. What fundamentals of NFB philosophy and independent living skills
are disrupted by allowing the use of a guide dog during all classes?*
I think this will be unnecessary.  Question 4 should give you this answer. 
The fewer questions you can ask and the more the other person talks, the 
better they will feel about the conversation.  You don't want to come across 
like you are interrogating them.  You can interject words of encouragement 
from time to time.  Things like ohhh that's interesting or mmmmm could you 
explain that a bit more or the like.  These come across more like 
encouragement rather than questions.  If the person is already going in the 
direction of one of your questions, let them and don't ask outright.

*6. Why does your center choose not to phase in or reintroduce the
guide dog into the student's class time and O&M lessons?*
You are assuming they don't.  that might be right or wrong.  We've talked 
about it at length and there is strong consensus on what the answer is, but 
I'd not make the assertion that I *knew* anything in a conversation like 
this.  I'd approach it with openness and curiosity.  Perhaps:   what do you 
think about other centers who slowly reintroduce the use of a guide dog as 
center training progresses?  or if the person is genuinely warm and 
receptive you could ask: if a student could incorporate the use of their 
guide as their training progressed, what would need to be in place for that 
to work? Don't ask that last question if the person is at all resistant or 
defensive.  They will respond with a firm negative and any further useful 
conversation will be out the window.  A lot of this is knowing how to read 
the flow of the conversation and knowing how to invite the person to offer 
more information.

*7. Do you think using a guide dog is against NFB philosophy? Or, does
it contradict the way the NFB would like to portray blind people, or
the way the NFB would like blind people to think of themselves?*
Don't ask this, just don't.  There is no answer they can give that will move 
the conversation forward.  If they answer that guide dogs are the work of 
the devil then they've made themselves to look like a large a$$.   If they 
answer that guide dogs are the next best thing to sliced bread, then the 
inference is why aren't they used in the center.  Either way you are pushing 
them into a corner.  It's a conversational disaster.

*8. Have any clients accused you of practicing discrimination by
restricting the use of a guide dog during classes?*
This one has several problems.  It is a subtle threat.   You are not 
outright accusing them of being discriminatory, but by asking them if they 
have been accused of this you are implying that you think they are 
discriminating.  Maybe they are, but accusing them of it, is not going to 
help you to understand their position.  It will put them on the extreme 
defensive.  If you want this conversation to begin a dialogue to work out 
some sort of way for guide dog users to attend the NFB centers, accusing 
them of discrimination is not going to help you.   In fact it will do the 
very opposite.  they will immediately view you as the opponent and will 
actively work to counter all your talking points and actively oppose your 
desire for guides to be incorporated into the training.

*9. How is your policy against guide dog use during class not a
discriminatory policy?*
See 8 above.  I'd not ask a question like this unless I had a really good 
relationship with the person.  That level of respect and understanding is 
not going to occur with one phone call.

*10. Are you in favor of working toward incorporating guide dogs into
the training of guide dog travelers? Why or why not?*
This one should be apparent from question 6 and perhaps follow up questions. 
I wouldn't ask it outright though.  they may personally be in favor of 
incorporating a student's guide dog into the center training, but may not 
feel comfortable with stating this outright to a stranger on the phone. 
It's a trust issue.  You are asking them to declare open opposition to the 
center's policy.  They may be in agreement with you, but remember they don't 
know you.  They may be in disagreement, which will become clear from the 
conversation, asking them to state that opposition just firms up their 
opinions.  I'd want the conversation to close with them thinking about 
possibilities.  I think question 6 above would be a good way to close the 
conversation, because it leaves them pondering what if.

*11. Are the O&M instructors at your center willing to devise a plan
for learning how to teach O&M to students using guide dogs?*
The instructors are most likely willing to do whatever the boss man/lady 
tells them.  they may have personal opinions, but will go along with the 
center policy.  they don't have to necessarily agree with it.  I'd bet 
dollars to donuts that there are currently O&M instructors in the NFB 
centers that support the use of guides during training.  I'd also bet that 
they would not talk about that view openly to a  complete stranger. I think 
this question is better left for future conversations.  This is a process, 
not a one phone call mission.

I'm making the assumption with all of the above that you want to work on 
this with the end goal of a mutually agreeable policy of providing high 
quality training while incorporating guide dogs gradually as training 
progresses.  If the goal is a debate or to make your opinion known, then 
your original questions would serve that purpose fine.

Julie