[nagdu] Are Training Program Policies Discriminatory? was Talking points for convos with training centers' directors

[Raven Tolliver]

Marion,
You are a figurehead. All presidents are. When you don’t put up a
fuss, or at least address things the way people think your
organization should, you will be criticized for it and badgered about
it.
I see reason for the tizzy though. It doesn’t make sense when the
organization that advocates on behalf of guide dog travelers doesn’t
hop on the chance to do so because it means disrespecting the parent
organization. In my limited experience with the NFB and NAGDU, I have
never seen people defend other organizations or establishments the way
the training centers have been defended on this list in an instance of
discrimination.

As I said on a separate thread, the ADA technically allows for
discrimination. If people knew about it, fundamental alteration would
be thrown around the way freedom of religion and freedom of speech Are
abused. What’s awful about US legislation is that we can use the law
to mistreat people and get away with it. We can restrict the freedoms
granted to others by exercising our own freedoms.

Now, I and others have talked at length about what is damning about
the training centers guide dog policy. To make it short:
1.	The training centers restrict when and where students can use guide
dogs in the building.
2.	 The philosophy at the training center fundamentally bars guide dog
travel in the places and at the times they specify. It has nothing to
do with a safety or health risk, or an inability. It is about what
their philosophy considers to be the most favorable method of
independent travel, and their views of what is and what is not
independence.

Presenting my arguments in a way that strongly opposes others views or
is aggressive to some, doesn’t mean it was not a thoughtful response.
I am passionate about the subject, and I could argue how and why my
messages are more thought out than others, but this isn’t a contest.
I’m a biased judge anyway.

The ADA has brought us far, but it needs further revision. Or not?
Maybe that's the horrifying beauty of living here is that the law
protects you as it allows for your harm.
-- 
Raven
Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
www.1am-editing.com

You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you
have or what you do.

Naturally-reared guide dogs
https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs

On 9/3/15, Marion Gwizdala via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> 	I am reading messages that assert the policies of NFB training
> centers are discriminatory and in violation of the ADA. I am also hearing
> that NFB and NAGDU should be doing something about this. I would like to
> take up the second part of this first.
>
> 	Just within the past week I have been told by four people what they
> believe NAGDU should be doing. One of these people, who happens to be a
> leader within the organization, even seemed to assert it was my specific
> responsibility to do a thing. The other three were asked if they were
> members of NAGDU, though I already knew the answer to that question when I
> asked it! So, if the NFB or NAGDU are to do something about something, who
> is the NFB or NAGDU and to whom should this task be assigned. Just in case
> there is someone who doesn't know the answer to this question, the NFB and
> NAGDU are its members. It is not the president; it is not the board of
> directors; these individuals are simply the ones who conduct the business
> of
> the organization at the pleasure of the membership. The members are the
> ones
> who do the work. Of course, the president and board of directors are
> members, too, and members first.to put it still another way, we have about
> 350 subscribers to this list - a service and asset of the NFB and NAGDU.
> How
> many of these subscribers are NFB or NAGDU members?
>
> 	We get a number of calls each week from guide dog users needing
> assistance. Each of these individuals are asked if they are a member of the
> NFB, not because it makes a difference as to whether or not we will help
> them, but because it gives us a point of reference. A vast majority of
> those
> wanting our help have an array of excuses why they are not a member. They
> are willing to take advantage of our assets but unwilling to invest their
> own. So, to those of you subscribing to this list and taking advantage of
> our assets I ask, "Are you a member?" If not, you may want to take a few
> minutes and invest $5.00 to do so. To become a member, simply visit
>
> http://nagdu.org/membership.html
>
> 	Now, let me take up the second part of this message - the assertion
> that the policies of the NFB training centers are discriminatory. If anyone
> intends to discuss this issue with someone from a training center, that
> person might want to formulate their argument first by gathering evidence
> to
> support their argument. Simply stating an opinion will not be sufficient or
> substantive. So, rather than respond to these assertions, I would be
> interested in learning more about how such policies are discriminatory and
> what provisions of the ADA or any other law or social policy supports  this
> assertion. Whenever someone asserts something is so, it is incumbent upon
> that person to demonstrate the validity of that assertion through the
> presentation of objective evidence; it is not up to another to prove it is
> not so. If one wishes to change social policy, it requires a sound,
> thoughtful argument supported by factual objective evidence. Only then can
> a
> person wishing to mount a counterpoint argument have the foundation on
> which
> to defend a position.
>
> 	I look forward to a thoughtful, factual, substantive discussion on
> this topic. I also look forward to learning that many of you have chosen to
> invest in our organization by paying your $5.00 dues!
>
> Fraternally yours,
>
> Marion Gwizdala, President
> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
> National Federation of the Blind
> (813) 626-2789
> (888) 624-3841 (Hotline)
> President at nagdu.org
> http://www.nagdu.org
>
> High expectations create unlimited potential for the blind!