[nagdu] Are Training Program Policies Discriminatory? was Talking points for convos with training centers' directors

Marianne Denning marianne at denningweb.com
Fri Sep 4 17:12:11 UTC 2015


I understand that because I am a member of other divisions.  I assumed
OAGDU was under NAGDU so I did not pay dues but if that is not the
case please let me know.

On 9/4/15, Tracy Carcione via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> As I understand it, being a member of a division makes me a member of NFB,
> but being a member of NFB does not make me a member of a division.
> Otherwise, no one would pay division dues, right?
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
> nagdu
> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 1:06 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Cindy Ray
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Are Training Program Policies Discriminatory? was
> Talking points for convos with training centers' directors
>
> Mary Ann, I'm not sure what the policy on that is because we don't have a
> division affiliate in Iowa. However, even if you are a member of OAGDU only,
> the way I see it, that makes you a member in good standing of an NFB
> Division affiliate. I am sure the board members will respond to you on this
> question.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marianne Denning
> via nagdu
> Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 11:19 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Marianne Denning <marianne at denningweb.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Are Training Program Policies Discriminatory? was
> Talking points for convos with training centers' directors
>
> Now I am concerned.  I am a member of OAGDU, the Ohio chapter.  Is my name
> on the list as a member of NAGDU?  Do you have a list of all paid members in
> the U.S.?
>
> On 9/4/15, Marion Gwizdala via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Raven,
>>
>> 	According to our records you are not a member of this organization.
>> It is very easy to criticize what we do as long as you sit on the
>> outside looking in and criticize what we do. Perhaps it would be
>> better to join the organization so you have a real voice in our
>> policies and the privilege of electing its leaders. To state that I am
>> a figurehead is to discount the membership who elects me. I am here to
>> serve at the pleasure of the membership. Most who know me will attest
>> to the fact that I am responsive to the membership, have a very open
>> and transparent level of accountability, and am willing to consider
>> other points of view. Perhaps it would be better to become involved in the
>> organization and work for synergistic change.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
>> Tolliver via nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 10:52 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Raven Tolliver
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Are Training Program Policies Discriminatory? was
>> Talking points for convos with training centers' directors
>>
>> Marion,
>> You are a figurehead. All presidents are. When you don’t put up a
>> fuss, or at least address things the way people think your
>> organization should, you will be criticized for it and badgered about it.
>> I see reason for the tizzy though. It doesn’t make sense when the
>> organization that advocates on behalf of guide dog travelers doesn’t
>> hop on the chance to do so because it means disrespecting the parent
>> organization.
>> In my limited experience with the NFB and NAGDU, I have never seen
>> people defend other organizations or establishments the way the
>> training centers have been defended on this list in an instance of
>> discrimination.
>>
>> As I said on a separate thread, the ADA technically allows for
>> discrimination. If people knew about it, fundamental alteration would
>> be thrown around the way freedom of religion and freedom of speech Are
>> abused.
>> What’s awful about US legislation is that we can use the law to
>> mistreat people and get away with it. We can restrict the freedoms
>> granted to others by exercising our own freedoms.
>>
>> Now, I and others have talked at length about what is damning about
>> the training centers guide dog policy. To make it short:
>> 1.	The training centers restrict when and where students can use guide
>> dogs in the building.
>> 2.	 The philosophy at the training center fundamentally bars guide dog
>> travel in the places and at the times they specify. It has nothing to
>> do with a safety or health risk, or an inability. It is about what
>> their philosophy considers to be the most favorable method of
>> independent travel, and their views of what is and what is not
>> independence.
>>
>> Presenting my arguments in a way that strongly opposes others views or
>> is aggressive to some, doesn’t mean it was not a thoughtful response.
>> I am passionate about the subject, and I could argue how and why my
>> messages are more thought out than others, but this isn’t a contest.
>> I’m a biased judge anyway.
>>
>> The ADA has brought us far, but it needs further revision. Or not?
>> Maybe that's the horrifying beauty of living here is that the law
>> protects you as it allows for your harm.
>> --
>> Raven
>> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
>> www.1am-editing.com
>>
>> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you
>> have or what you do.
>>
>> Naturally-reared guide dogs
>> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>>
>> On 9/3/15, Marion Gwizdala via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> 	I am reading messages that assert the policies of NFB training
>>> centers are discriminatory and in violation of the ADA. I am also
>>> hearing that NFB and NAGDU should be doing something about this. I
>>> would like to take up the second part of this first.
>>>
>>> 	Just within the past week I have been told by four people what they
>>> believe NAGDU should be doing. One of these people, who happens to be
>>> a leader within the organization, even seemed to assert it was my
>>> specific responsibility to do a thing. The other three were asked if
>>> they were members of NAGDU, though I already knew the answer to that
>>> question when I asked it! So, if the NFB or NAGDU are to do something
>>> about something, who is the NFB or NAGDU and to whom should this task
>>> be assigned. Just in case there is someone who doesn't know the
>>> answer to this question, the NFB and NAGDU are its members. It is not
>>> the president; it is not the board of directors; these individuals
>>> are simply the ones who conduct the business of the organization at
>>> the pleasure of the membership. The members are the ones who do the work.
>>> Of course, the president and board of directors are members, too, and
>>> members first.to put it still another way, we have about
>>> 350 subscribers to this list - a service and asset of the NFB and NAGDU.
>>> How
>>> many of these subscribers are NFB or NAGDU members?
>>>
>>> 	We get a number of calls each week from guide dog users needing
>>> assistance. Each of these individuals are asked if they are a member
>>> of the NFB, not because it makes a difference as to whether or not we
>>> will help them, but because it gives us a point of reference. A vast
>>> majority of those wanting our help have an array of excuses why they
>>> are not a member. They are willing to take advantage of our assets
>>> but unwilling to invest their own. So, to those of you subscribing to
>>> this list and taking advantage of our assets I ask, "Are you a
>>> member?" If not, you may want to take a few minutes and invest $5.00
>>> to do so. To become a member, simply visit
>>>
>>> http://nagdu.org/membership.html
>>>
>>> 	Now, let me take up the second part of this message - the assertion
>>> that the policies of the NFB training centers are discriminatory. If
>>> anyone intends to discuss this issue with someone from a training
>>> center, that person might want to formulate their argument first by
>>> gathering evidence to support their argument. Simply stating an
>>> opinion will not be sufficient or substantive. So, rather than
>>> respond to these assertions, I would be interested in learning more
>>> about how such policies are discriminatory and what provisions of the
>>> ADA or any other law or social policy supports  this assertion.
>>> Whenever someone asserts something is so, it is incumbent upon that
>>> person to demonstrate the validity of that assertion through the
>>> presentation of objective evidence; it is not up to another to prove
>>> it is not so. If one wishes to change social policy, it requires a
>>> sound, thoughtful argument supported by factual objective evidence.
>>> Only then can a person wishing to mount a counterpoint argument have
>>> the foundation on which to defend a position.
>>>
>>> 	I look forward to a thoughtful, factual, substantive discussion on
>>> this topic. I also look forward to learning that many of you have
>>> chosen to invest in our organization by paying your $5.00 dues!
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>
>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>> (813) 626-2789
>>> (888) 624-3841 (Hotline)
>>> President at nagdu.org
>>> http://www.nagdu.org
>>>
>>> High expectations create unlimited potential for the blind!
>>
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>
>
> --
> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> (513) 607-6053
>
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-- 
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053




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