[nagdu] Are Training Program Policies Discriminatory? was Talking points for convos with training centers' directors

Fri Sep 4 17:53:08 UTC 2015

Thank you very much.  I thought that is how it worked but just wanted
to make sure.

On 9/4/15, Sherrill O'Brien via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi Maryann and all,
>
> This is Sherrill O'Brien, NAGDU's secretary. No worries...Yes, indeed you
> are a NAGDU member. Your name is on the Ohio Association of Guide Dog Users
> membership roster for 2015. This seems like a good opportunity to remind
> everyone that when you become a member of one of NAGDU's divisions, by
> paying dues of five dollars, you are automatically a NAGDU member. This way
> of joining NAGDU is why Marion calls for all NAGDU divisions to send in
> their membership rosters  by June 1. By the way, when you join your state's
> NAGDU division, all the money from your dues goes to that division.
> Since there are still many states with no divisions, we of course have other
> methods for joining NAGDU. You can:
>  join when you attend our meetings at national convention
> go to our website and easily pay with PayPal
> send a check to NAGDU's treasurer Toni Whaley, whose contact information is
> available on the website
>
> I have tried hard to compile the complete membership roster. If you're not
> sure whether you're a NAGDU member, feel free to send me an email at
> secretary at nagdu.org and I'll see if I have your name. Of course a few names
> may be missing from the list, but I feel certain I have most of them.
>
> I hope this info helps clear ukp any confusion about NAGDU membership. We've
> tried to make it as easy as possible, and encourage those on this list who
> aren't yet members to join.
>
> Have a great weekend.
>
> Sherrill
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marianne Denning
> via nagdu
> Sent: September 04, 2015 12:19 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Marianne Denning
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Are Training Program Policies Discriminatory? was
> Talking points for convos with training centers' directors
>
> Now I am concerned.  I am a member of OAGDU, the Ohio chapter.  Is my
> name on the list as a member of NAGDU?  Do you have a list of all paid
> members in the U.S.?
>
> On 9/4/15, Marion Gwizdala via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Raven,
>>
>> 	According to our records you are not a member of this organization. It is
>> very easy to criticize what we do as long as you sit on the outside
>> looking
>> in and criticize what we do. Perhaps it would be better to join the
>> organization so you have a real voice in our policies and the privilege of
>> electing its leaders. To state that I am a figurehead is to discount the
>> membership who elects me. I am here to serve at the pleasure of the
>> membership. Most who know me will attest to the fact that I am responsive
>> to
>> the membership, have a very open and transparent level of accountability,
>> and am willing to consider other points of view. Perhaps it would be
>> better
>> to become involved in the organization and work for synergistic change.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
>> via nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 10:52 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Raven Tolliver
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Are Training Program Policies Discriminatory? was
>> Talking points for convos with training centers' directors
>>
>> Marion,
>> You are a figurehead. All presidents are. When you don’t put up a fuss, or
>> at least address things the way people think your organization should, you
>> will be criticized for it and badgered about it.
>> I see reason for the tizzy though. It doesn’t make sense when the
>> organization that advocates on behalf of guide dog travelers doesn’t hop
>> on
>> the chance to do so because it means disrespecting the parent
>> organization.
>> In my limited experience with the NFB and NAGDU, I have never seen people
>> defend other organizations or establishments the way the training centers
>> have been defended on this list in an instance of discrimination.
>>
>> As I said on a separate thread, the ADA technically allows for
>> discrimination. If people knew about it, fundamental alteration would be
>> thrown around the way freedom of religion and freedom of speech Are
>> abused.
>> What’s awful about US legislation is that we can use the law to mistreat
>> people and get away with it. We can restrict the freedoms granted to
>> others
>> by exercising our own freedoms.
>>
>> Now, I and others have talked at length about what is damning about the
>> training centers guide dog policy. To make it short:
>> 1.	The training centers restrict when and where students can use guide
>> dogs in the building.
>> 2.	 The philosophy at the training center fundamentally bars guide dog
>> travel in the places and at the times they specify. It has nothing to do
>> with a safety or health risk, or an inability. It is about what their
>> philosophy considers to be the most favorable method of independent
>> travel,
>> and their views of what is and what is not independence.
>>
>> Presenting my arguments in a way that strongly opposes others views or is
>> aggressive to some, doesn’t mean it was not a thoughtful response.
>> I am passionate about the subject, and I could argue how and why my
>> messages
>> are more thought out than others, but this isn’t a contest.
>> I’m a biased judge anyway.
>>
>> The ADA has brought us far, but it needs further revision. Or not?
>> Maybe that's the horrifying beauty of living here is that the law protects
>> you as it allows for your harm.
>> --
>> Raven
>> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
>> www.1am-editing.com
>>
>> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you have
>> or
>> what you do.
>>
>> Naturally-reared guide dogs
>> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>>
>> On 9/3/15, Marion Gwizdala via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> 	I am reading messages that assert the policies of NFB training
>>> centers are discriminatory and in violation of the ADA. I am also
>>> hearing that NFB and NAGDU should be doing something about this. I
>>> would like to take up the second part of this first.
>>>
>>> 	Just within the past week I have been told by four people what they
>>> believe NAGDU should be doing. One of these people, who happens to be
>>> a leader within the organization, even seemed to assert it was my
>>> specific responsibility to do a thing. The other three were asked if
>>> they were members of NAGDU, though I already knew the answer to that
>>> question when I asked it! So, if the NFB or NAGDU are to do something
>>> about something, who is the NFB or NAGDU and to whom should this task
>>> be assigned. Just in case there is someone who doesn't know the answer
>>> to this question, the NFB and NAGDU are its members. It is not the
>>> president; it is not the board of directors; these individuals are
>>> simply the ones who conduct the business of the organization at the
>>> pleasure of the membership. The members are the ones who do the work.
>>> Of course, the president and board of directors are members, too, and
>>> members first.to put it still another way, we have about
>>> 350 subscribers to this list - a service and asset of the NFB and NAGDU.
>>> How
>>> many of these subscribers are NFB or NAGDU members?
>>>
>>> 	We get a number of calls each week from guide dog users needing
>>> assistance. Each of these individuals are asked if they are a member
>>> of the NFB, not because it makes a difference as to whether or not we
>>> will help them, but because it gives us a point of reference. A vast
>>> majority of those wanting our help have an array of excuses why they
>>> are not a member. They are willing to take advantage of our assets but
>>> unwilling to invest their own. So, to those of you subscribing to this
>>> list and taking advantage of our assets I ask, "Are you a member?" If
>>> not, you may want to take a few minutes and invest $5.00 to do so. To
>>> become a member, simply visit
>>>
>>> http://nagdu.org/membership.html
>>>
>>> 	Now, let me take up the second part of this message - the assertion
>>> that the policies of the NFB training centers are discriminatory. If
>>> anyone intends to discuss this issue with someone from a training
>>> center, that person might want to formulate their argument first by
>>> gathering evidence to support their argument. Simply stating an
>>> opinion will not be sufficient or substantive. So, rather than respond
>>> to these assertions, I would be interested in learning more about how
>>> such policies are discriminatory and what provisions of the ADA or any
>>> other law or social policy supports  this assertion. Whenever someone
>>> asserts something is so, it is incumbent upon that person to
>>> demonstrate the validity of that assertion through the presentation of
>>> objective evidence; it is not up to another to prove it is not so. If
>>> one wishes to change social policy, it requires a sound, thoughtful
>>> argument supported by factual objective evidence. Only then can a
>>> person wishing to mount a counterpoint argument have the foundation on
>>> which to defend a position.
>>>
>>> 	I look forward to a thoughtful, factual, substantive discussion on
>>> this topic. I also look forward to learning that many of you have
>>> chosen to invest in our organization by paying your $5.00 dues!
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>
>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>> (813) 626-2789
>>> (888) 624-3841 (Hotline)
>>> President at nagdu.org
>>> http://www.nagdu.org
>>>
>>> High expectations create unlimited potential for the blind!
>>
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>
>
> --
> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> (513) 607-6053
>
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-- 
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053