[nagdu] Are Training Program Policies Discriminatory? was Talking points for convos with training centers' directors

Fri Sep 4 19:57:35 UTC 2015

Marianne,

	Since membership in an affiliate division constitutes membership in NAGD and you are a member of the Ohio Association of Guide dog users, you are a member of NAGDU. My point in the message I sent was not that one must be a member of NAGDU to participate in our programs; rather, it was to make the point that many people are critical of our positions and have preconceived notions about our structure but are not involved in the organization and, as such, their criticism is empty. Membership has its priveleges, as American Express asserts. The privilege of membership in NAGDU is to speak on the floor, vote, and hold office. We give anyone wishing to have their voice heard the opportunity to do so on this list; however, most on this list are not members. They take advantage of our assets without any investment in the organization. They are more than happy to talk about their rights but refuse to exercise responsibility. There are not rights without concomitant responsibilities.

Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marianne Denning via nagdu
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 12:19 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Marianne Denning
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Are Training Program Policies Discriminatory? was Talking points for convos with training centers' directors

Now I am concerned.  I am a member of OAGDU, the Ohio chapter.  Is my name on the list as a member of NAGDU?  Do you have a list of all paid members in the U.S.?

On 9/4/15, Marion Gwizdala via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Raven,
>
> 	According to our records you are not a member of this organization. 
> It is very easy to criticize what we do as long as you sit on the 
> outside looking in and criticize what we do. Perhaps it would be 
> better to join the organization so you have a real voice in our 
> policies and the privilege of electing its leaders. To state that I am 
> a figurehead is to discount the membership who elects me. I am here to 
> serve at the pleasure of the membership. Most who know me will attest 
> to the fact that I am responsive to the membership, have a very open 
> and transparent level of accountability, and am willing to consider 
> other points of view. Perhaps it would be better to become involved in the organization and work for synergistic change.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven 
> Tolliver via nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 10:52 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Raven Tolliver
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Are Training Program Policies Discriminatory? was 
> Talking points for convos with training centers' directors
>
> Marion,
> You are a figurehead. All presidents are. When you don’t put up a 
> fuss, or at least address things the way people think your 
> organization should, you will be criticized for it and badgered about it.
> I see reason for the tizzy though. It doesn’t make sense when the 
> organization that advocates on behalf of guide dog travelers doesn’t 
> hop on the chance to do so because it means disrespecting the parent organization.
> In my limited experience with the NFB and NAGDU, I have never seen 
> people defend other organizations or establishments the way the 
> training centers have been defended on this list in an instance of discrimination.
>
> As I said on a separate thread, the ADA technically allows for 
> discrimination. If people knew about it, fundamental alteration would 
> be thrown around the way freedom of religion and freedom of speech Are abused.
> What’s awful about US legislation is that we can use the law to 
> mistreat people and get away with it. We can restrict the freedoms 
> granted to others by exercising our own freedoms.
>
> Now, I and others have talked at length about what is damning about 
> the training centers guide dog policy. To make it short:
> 1.	The training centers restrict when and where students can use guide
> dogs in the building.
> 2.	 The philosophy at the training center fundamentally bars guide dog
> travel in the places and at the times they specify. It has nothing to 
> do with a safety or health risk, or an inability. It is about what 
> their philosophy considers to be the most favorable method of 
> independent travel, and their views of what is and what is not independence.
>
> Presenting my arguments in a way that strongly opposes others views or 
> is aggressive to some, doesn’t mean it was not a thoughtful response.
> I am passionate about the subject, and I could argue how and why my 
> messages are more thought out than others, but this isn’t a contest.
> I’m a biased judge anyway.
>
> The ADA has brought us far, but it needs further revision. Or not?
> Maybe that's the horrifying beauty of living here is that the law 
> protects you as it allows for your harm.
> --
> Raven
> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
> www.1am-editing.com
>
> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you 
> have or what you do.
>
> Naturally-reared guide dogs
> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>
> On 9/3/15, Marion Gwizdala via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> 	I am reading messages that assert the policies of NFB training 
>> centers are discriminatory and in violation of the ADA. I am also 
>> hearing that NFB and NAGDU should be doing something about this. I 
>> would like to take up the second part of this first.
>>
>> 	Just within the past week I have been told by four people what they 
>> believe NAGDU should be doing. One of these people, who happens to be 
>> a leader within the organization, even seemed to assert it was my 
>> specific responsibility to do a thing. The other three were asked if 
>> they were members of NAGDU, though I already knew the answer to that 
>> question when I asked it! So, if the NFB or NAGDU are to do something 
>> about something, who is the NFB or NAGDU and to whom should this task 
>> be assigned. Just in case there is someone who doesn't know the 
>> answer to this question, the NFB and NAGDU are its members. It is not 
>> the president; it is not the board of directors; these individuals 
>> are simply the ones who conduct the business of the organization at 
>> the pleasure of the membership. The members are the ones who do the work.
>> Of course, the president and board of directors are members, too, and 
>> members first.to put it still another way, we have about
>> 350 subscribers to this list - a service and asset of the NFB and NAGDU.
>> How
>> many of these subscribers are NFB or NAGDU members?
>>
>> 	We get a number of calls each week from guide dog users needing 
>> assistance. Each of these individuals are asked if they are a member 
>> of the NFB, not because it makes a difference as to whether or not we 
>> will help them, but because it gives us a point of reference. A vast 
>> majority of those wanting our help have an array of excuses why they 
>> are not a member. They are willing to take advantage of our assets 
>> but unwilling to invest their own. So, to those of you subscribing to 
>> this list and taking advantage of our assets I ask, "Are you a 
>> member?" If not, you may want to take a few minutes and invest $5.00 
>> to do so. To become a member, simply visit
>>
>> http://nagdu.org/membership.html
>>
>> 	Now, let me take up the second part of this message - the assertion 
>> that the policies of the NFB training centers are discriminatory. If 
>> anyone intends to discuss this issue with someone from a training 
>> center, that person might want to formulate their argument first by 
>> gathering evidence to support their argument. Simply stating an 
>> opinion will not be sufficient or substantive. So, rather than 
>> respond to these assertions, I would be interested in learning more 
>> about how such policies are discriminatory and what provisions of the 
>> ADA or any other law or social policy supports  this assertion. 
>> Whenever someone asserts something is so, it is incumbent upon that 
>> person to demonstrate the validity of that assertion through the 
>> presentation of objective evidence; it is not up to another to prove 
>> it is not so. If one wishes to change social policy, it requires a 
>> sound, thoughtful argument supported by factual objective evidence. 
>> Only then can a person wishing to mount a counterpoint argument have 
>> the foundation on which to defend a position.
>>
>> 	I look forward to a thoughtful, factual, substantive discussion on 
>> this topic. I also look forward to learning that many of you have 
>> chosen to invest in our organization by paying your $5.00 dues!
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>>
>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> (813) 626-2789
>> (888) 624-3841 (Hotline)
>> President at nagdu.org
>> http://www.nagdu.org
>>
>> High expectations create unlimited potential for the blind!
>
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--
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053

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