[NAGDU] intersections/quiet cars/issues loosing line of ssight and recovering from it

Thu Mar 3 23:30:27 UTC 2016

Diane,
My husband has a dog from the same school as yours is from..
What he does is to remind the dog to find the curb while crossing.  If he feels like she’s veering, he stops, and repeats, no, find the curb, and gestures toward where he thinks the curb is..

hth,
Caitlyn

> On Mar 3, 2016, at 4:27 PM, Diane Vlasoff via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Tami
> 
> Thank you for all of this really great in-depth information. I still haven't heard back from the school and I'm looking forward to hearing what they suggest to but I really appreciate all of the ideas and I'm going to take her out there and give it a try because I as I told Robert she repeated the same thing yesterday so that's two days in a row at that particular intersection that she did essentially the same thing so all I can say is thank you thank you thank you for all of your information I really appreciate it
> 
> Have a great day
> 
> Sent using dictation.  sometimes it works and sometimes the mistakes can be funny.  please forgive anything in between.  
> 
> On Mar 3, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Tami Jarvis via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Diane,
> 
> That's scary. I think Tracy's idea of why Jaxi handled the situation as she did is probably about right. Since you were upset, she may already have realized it was a mistake and wait at the curb next time. Or she may need a bit of refresher training at that intersection or a similar one.
> 
> Most of my traffic training happens before the dog is ready to start in harness, so I'm using my cane and listening for traffic while the pup practices standing at the curb. I draw the pup's attention to what I'm listening for and talk my way through the decision to cross, kind of playing up the "this is serious" bit. If I make a mistake and have to step back to the curb, I go ahead and gasp or whatever. After a few squillion street crossings, the pup gets it and begins to pay attention to traffic and do refusals. Since I'm using the cane for navigation, I can teach the pup that we *never* stop in the middle of the street (except to avoid certain death) by hustling across and dragging the dog if he stops. I usually don't haul my dog around by the leash, so pulling him along is a big change. I'll usually say something in a breathy tone, playing up the danger and, well, whatever. Since I'm normally calm and positive and all that while training, a mild negative reaction like that is all it takes to let the pup know that this is serious business.
> 
> If we need to do refresher training later on or work on a particularly difficult intersection, I'll haul out the cane for that and use approximately the same process a time or two, then work it again in harness.
> 
> I'm trying to think of a useful way to teach the dog to wait at the curb when there's a quiet car in a far lane without a sighted spotter... I hate quiet cars! I guess you could wait at the curb until something nice and loud stops in that spot, then start to step out and step back to wait until it is out of the way. Depending on how Jaxi was trained and how astute she is about picking up your reactions, that might get the point across. Or you could gasp, "Foul doom is upon us!" as you scurry back to the safe curb. Or... The important thing is to communicate to the dog that it is dangerous to go into the street when a car is sitting still in that lane.
> 
> I would also use the cane to teach her to cross straight to the curb. I teach my dogs a "curb" command, which can be handy at times, though it gets phased out as the dog doesn't need it anymore. Loki is good about taking me around puddles, ice patches, piles of wet leaves and such, which is great for my shoes but confusing for me. I don't know if he needs the curb command or the sidewalk command at this point, but it makes me feel batter. /lol/ Actually, he has a little movement that seems to mean, "Yeah, I'm working on it," that gives me a clue we're going around something and will be back on course when we're past it.
> 
> Don't know if any of that is helpful. I hope your school has something useful for you.
> 
> Let us know how it goes!
> 
> Tami
> 
>> On 03/01/2016 08:31 PM, Diane Vlasoff via NAGDU wrote:
>> Hello all-
>> 
>> My current guide dog, Jaxi, and I are soon to reach our second
>> anniversary. For the vast majority of her guide work I have only
>> accolades.  However…
>> 
>> This afternoon as we approached the curb of a t shaped intersection a
>> car crossed our pat to make a right turn.  We stopped at the curb and
>> let the car make its right turn.  Assuming the intersection was then
>> empty I told Jaxi “Forward” and we began to cross the street.  Before
>> we crossed the entire right lane Jaxi stopped.
>> 
>> Since we were standing in a traffic lane with who knows what traffic
>> heading towards us, I asked her to go forward again a few times but
>> she stood still.
>> Finally I heard a car in the next lane over make a left turn.  It was
>> entirely silent until it moved.
>> 
>> Jaxi is my 4th guide dog and I have not had this experience before.
>> It unnerves me that Jaxi should start across an intersection that she
>> cannot cross without stopping.  It concerns me that this behavior left
>> us standing essentially in the middle of an intersection. And I am
>> concerned that I could not hear the silent car which might enable me
>> to ask Jaxi to work around the car waiting to make a left turn.
>> 
>> Has anyone else had a similar experience?  What did you do?  How can I
>> reduce our risk in possible future scenarios like this?
>> 
>> My three previous dogs came from GDB.  I wanted and am happy to have a
>> guide of a breed that I could not get from
>> GDB but I do not think any of my GDB dogs would have had this problem.
>> 
>> The trainer Jaxi and I worked with at school was extremely elderly and
>> did not present us with the vast majority of skills necessary to work
>> at home.  For example, during our “final exam” we were asked to
>> complete the following skills we did not cover in class and being it
>> was my first time with a dog from this school it would have been nice
>> to know how she was taught to:
>> Go through revolving doors;  go up or down staircases; leave or enter
>> escalators; or enter or leave elevators.
>> 
>> My second question is:
>> Jaxi has lost her line of travel while crossing streets before.   If a
>> car is preparing to make a right turn at the far side of an
>> intersection we have either ended up floundering somewhere across the
>> street or actually walking down a lane of traffic with me commanding
>> her to “left find the curb” over and over until someone at the bus
>> stop came to rescue us.
>> 
>> I know the school I got Jaxi from does not have the follow up support
>> I could have gotten at GDB, so I appreciate your help particularly any
>> of you who train your own dogs.
>> 
>> Diane and Jaxi
>> 
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> 
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