[NAGDU] intersections/quiet cars/issues loosing line of ssight and recovering from it

Julie J. julielj at neb.rr.com
Fri Mar 4 13:00:38 UTC 2016


I teach traffic concepts with non car objects, like rolling trash cans, 
shopping carts, skateboards, bikes etc.  By the time we get to actual 
traffic, the dog should already know all the concepts and we are just 
refining and polishing.  If you feel her traffic awareness is far off the 
mark, I'd back up and work on moving obstacle avoidance as the foundation 
skill.

If her overall traffic skills are fine and it's just particular 
intersections that give her difficulty, then there is something else going 
on.  Have you crossed that intersection previously?  Could it be just odd 
and confusing for her?  I've encountered some of those, where my dog is 
doing her very best, but the situation is just something she hasn't 
encountered before.  We have a lot of random and strange curb approaches and 
street crossings here though.

If I hear no traffic, I will follow and trust that she is taking me around 
construction or something that I don't know about.  If I was very sure she 
was making a mistake, I would strongly indicate that she should change 
course.  I do this by using the same body language I'd use for a moving 
turn, slightly angling my body to the left, perhaps moving in closer to 
her/crowding her a bit and giving constant verbal and hand signals to go 
left.  If I was truly positive she was being dense and we needed to turn 
like right now, I'd stop, pivot myself to the left, make sure she was 
pointed in the right direction and indicate forward again.   I don't think 
I've had to do something that drastic since Belle.

About quiet cars...if the issue is specific to only quiet cars, then the 
only way I can think of is to find someone with a quiet car and set up 
practice sessions.   You will want to work out exactly what is going to 
happen in advance and if possible keep in constant communication with the 
driver.  The communication and knowing what is going to happen is the key. 
You will need to be able to quickly and efficiently  over ride her decisions 
if they are incorrect to keep you both safe and to instruct her on how to 
work traffic correctly.

HTH
Julie
Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now 
available! Get the book here:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
-----Original Message----- 
From: Tami Jarvis via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2016 10:42 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Tami Jarvis
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] intersections/quiet cars/issues loosing line of ssight 
and recovering from it

Diane,

That's scary. I think Tracy's idea of why Jaxi handled the situation as
she did is probably about right. Since you were upset, she may already
have realized it was a mistake and wait at the curb next time. Or she
may need a bit of refresher training at that intersection or a similar one.

Most of my traffic training happens before the dog is ready to start in
harness, so I'm using my cane and listening for traffic while the pup
practices standing at the curb. I draw the pup's attention to what I'm
listening for and talk my way through the decision to cross, kind of
playing up the "this is serious" bit. If I make a mistake and have to
step back to the curb, I go ahead and gasp or whatever. After a few
squillion street crossings, the pup gets it and begins to pay attention
to traffic and do refusals. Since I'm using the cane for navigation, I
can teach the pup that we *never* stop in the middle of the street
(except to avoid certain death) by hustling across and dragging the dog
if he stops. I usually don't haul my dog around by the leash, so pulling
him along is a big change. I'll usually say something in a breathy tone,
playing up the danger and, well, whatever. Since I'm normally calm and
positive and all that while training, a mild negative reaction like that
is all it takes to let the pup know that this is serious business.

If we need to do refresher training later on or work on a particularly
difficult intersection, I'll haul out the cane for that and use
approximately the same process a time or two, then work it again in harness.

I'm trying to think of a useful way to teach the dog to wait at the curb
when there's a quiet car in a far lane without a sighted spotter... I
hate quiet cars! I guess you could wait at the curb until something nice
and loud stops in that spot, then start to step out and step back to
wait until it is out of the way. Depending on how Jaxi was trained and
how astute she is about picking up your reactions, that might get the
point across. Or you could gasp, "Foul doom is upon us!" as you scurry
back to the safe curb. Or... The important thing is to communicate to
the dog that it is dangerous to go into the street when a car is sitting
still in that lane.

I would also use the cane to teach her to cross straight to the curb. I
teach my dogs a "curb" command, which can be handy at times, though it
gets phased out as the dog doesn't need it anymore. Loki is good about
taking me around puddles, ice patches, piles of wet leaves and such,
which is great for my shoes but confusing for me. I don't know if he
needs the curb command or the sidewalk command at this point, but it
makes me feel batter. /lol/ Actually, he has a little movement that
seems to mean, "Yeah, I'm working on it," that gives me a clue we're
going around something and will be back on course when we're past it.

Don't know if any of that is helpful. I hope your school has something
useful for you.

Let us know how it goes!

Tami

On 03/01/2016 08:31 PM, Diane Vlasoff via NAGDU wrote:
> Hello all-
>
> My current guide dog, Jaxi, and I are soon to reach our second
> anniversary. For the vast majority of her guide work I have only
> accolades.  However…
>
> This afternoon as we approached the curb of a t shaped intersection a
> car crossed our pat to make a right turn.  We stopped at the curb and
> let the car make its right turn.  Assuming the intersection was then
> empty I told Jaxi “Forward” and we began to cross the street.  Before
> we crossed the entire right lane Jaxi stopped.
>
> Since we were standing in a traffic lane with who knows what traffic
> heading towards us, I asked her to go forward again a few times but
> she stood still.
> Finally I heard a car in the next lane over make a left turn.  It was
> entirely silent until it moved.
>
> Jaxi is my 4th guide dog and I have not had this experience before.
> It unnerves me that Jaxi should start across an intersection that she
> cannot cross without stopping.  It concerns me that this behavior left
> us standing essentially in the middle of an intersection. And I am
> concerned that I could not hear the silent car which might enable me
> to ask Jaxi to work around the car waiting to make a left turn.
>
> Has anyone else had a similar experience?  What did you do?  How can I
> reduce our risk in possible future scenarios like this?
>
> My three previous dogs came from GDB.  I wanted and am happy to have a
> guide of a breed that I could not get from
> GDB but I do not think any of my GDB dogs would have had this problem.
>
> The trainer Jaxi and I worked with at school was extremely elderly and
> did not present us with the vast majority of skills necessary to work
> at home.  For example, during our “final exam” we were asked to
> complete the following skills we did not cover in class and being it
> was my first time with a dog from this school it would have been nice
> to know how she was taught to:
> Go through revolving doors;  go up or down staircases; leave or enter
> escalators; or enter or leave elevators.
>
> My second question is:
> Jaxi has lost her line of travel while crossing streets before.   If a
> car is preparing to make a right turn at the far side of an
> intersection we have either ended up floundering somewhere across the
> street or actually walking down a lane of traffic with me commanding
> her to “left find the curb” over and over until someone at the bus
> stop came to rescue us.
>
> I know the school I got Jaxi from does not have the follow up support
> I could have gotten at GDB, so I appreciate your help particularly any
> of you who train your own dogs.
>
> Diane and Jaxi
>
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