[NAGDU] Question for GDA grads, Dogs and canes and curbs

[Lisa Belville]

Hi, Dan.  So you've done the diagonal shuffle?  <grin>

That hasn't happened as much with us, because I can usually correct our line 
of travel so we're not as close to the parallel traffic, which, of course, 
leads to not locating the curb exactly.

But yes, even without those domes, lining up perfectly is nearly impossible 
for me now days.  <sigh>

I can use my right hand an gesture in the direction I'm farily certain the 
curb lies, but I can't guarantee it.

I'm hoping that some of this will go away as Paige becomes more seasoned.

I think if someone called my sister and told her I was in the middle of the 
street, she'd start a pool to see how soon I'd get hit.  LOL  Seriously, 
though, I've been lucky in that I've managed to figure things out or find 
pedestrian assistance.  The veering into the street hasn't happened that 
often, but it has occurred enough to really shake my self confidence.

Lisa Belville
missktlab1217 at frontier.com

In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth... After that, 
everything else was Made in China.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Weiner via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Question for GDA grads, Dogs and canes and curbs


> Oh my,  Lisa, sorry that's happening, similar things have been happening 
> in
> my community in sunny Florida actually the place isn't called sunny, it's
> Winter Park, so now all of you know where I am  and can track me down and 
> we
> can all make difficult crossings together.... They replaced curbs with
> tactile domes, the intention is good I know )though it doesn't help at all
> in my opinion)  but the problem is that you have to be quite careful about
> alignment because if you think the tactile dome is a curb to square off of
> you ewill go in to the  middle of the parallel street.  Happened one time
> and I'm still hearing everyone and his uncle comment on it, apparently I 
> was
> very visible--lol  love that so many saw and I'm a source of amusement and
> wonder for them all--lol. Even some jerk went to my sister's house in the
> neighborhood and told her they saw me crossing diagonally...that actually
> was going to far as they could save themselves the trip by talking to me 
> but
> you know, if you are blind even though you are forty-six, world-traveled,
> holder of a degree and so on you are a grown-up kid--smile. Rant over. I
> mean, I can always have respect for someone who asks me about something
> directly, right?--smile but going to the relatives...hmmm...
>
> But anyway, this crossing difficulty   as you described it it is something
> that seems to happen and I hope it is working better for you.
>
> Unfortunately I only hear out of one ear so some of the pointers you
> mentioned on traffic are more difficult for me, but we keep on trucking 
> and
> building our teamwork.
>
> Best wishes and always glad to see you on different tlists.
>
>
> Dan and His Royal Majesty, Parker
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Belville 
> via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 12:58 PM
> To: national guide dog
> Cc: Lisa Belville
> Subject: [NAGDU] Question for GDA grads, Dogs and canes and curbs
>
> Hi, all.
>
> I've been unexpectedly off line for a bit, so I'm just going through the
> NAGDU archives and noticed the thread about dogs going into the street
> instead of turning onto a sidewalk. I don't remember who the original 
> poster
> was, but I'd encourage you to call your school and get some on sight help 
> so
> they can see exactly what's happening in real time and give you tips as
> things are happening.  Even videos and phone calls aren't a substitute for
> that kind of assistance.  I know it's scary/frustrating and depressing to
> have a dog and have this happen, so that's why I'm urging the school
> contact.
>
> I've had this issue in varying degrees with all of my dogs, but it has 
> been
> way worse with my second and current dog because over the past few years 
> the
> city has been changing most of their old school curb cuts to this blended
> and rounded style.  The curbs that aren't blended are still rounded, but
> there's plenty of slope or rough concrete, so it's a bit easier to
> distinguish these even if there's not traffic noise.
>
> A dog can learn to navigate these, but it's really frustrating to have to
> direct the dog accurately especially if you can't give very specific
> directions due to not having reliable tactile feedback from the
> concrete/asphalt.  I try to use traffic sounds to pinpoint when we're
> actually at the curb rather than using what I feel through my feet.    We
> have a few curbs here that are all concrete and even using my long cane in
> an arc doesn't really help me find the curb unless I have some traffic
> sounds.  It's really frustrating
>
> We had a  situation recently where we crossed one of these rounded
> intersections and rather than  continue straight along the sidewalk, we
> wound up in the parallel street.  This is a farily busy street for us, but
> there's parking and bike lanes on the west side of the street, so even
> though we were technically in the street, we weren't in traffic.  I 
> figured
> this out and told Paige to move over to the right and we treated it like a
> country walk until she could find the first open right turn and get us 
> back
> on the sidewalk.  I don't consider this good guiding behavior, but at the
> same time we did recover successfully without injury or stress, Well, 
> Paige
> didn't seem stressed.  I, on the other hand, was a basketcase.  LOL
>
> Part of the problem here is that this is a mismatched intersection in that
> the curb we came from is very sloped and obvious while the one we were
> crossing to is extremely flat and blended, so there's really nothing for 
> me
> to feel.
>
> I've been in touch with GDA where I got Paige and they've given us ideas,
> mostly involving someone sighted helping us to pattern Paige to these 
> areas.
> They said she's looking for a change in elevation more than anything else
> when finding curbs, and that's hard for those flat curbs and we have tons 
> of
> those.  I'm lucky in that the person helping me is my original O&M teacher 
> I
> had back in third grade.  Seriously, I've known this person for that long.
> She's open to learning how dogs work and is actually going to a workshop
> later this year sponsored by a guide dog school, sorry, don't remember 
> which
> one.  Just saying that while I'm not getting on sight help from the school
> yet, finding the right person really does make a difference.
>
> The other recommendation is to use my cane in these areas so I know them
> well enough to direct Paige accurately.  I have mixed feelings about this.
> I don't mind the cane, but I have a horrible left veer, which is why when 
> I
> have to use a cane, I use a long cane.  This isn't an NFB style cane, but
> I'm using the NFB recommendation that the cane come up to at least my 
> nose.
> I'm five foot one, and this cane comes up to just past that point.  This
> really does help with veering and recovering from it, especially at street
> crossings.
>
> Now when I leave with Paige, I've got my Trekker Breeze, my cane folded in
> my right hand and my iPhone with the compass app running and calibrated. 
> I
> have had to use all of these to get us out of travel jams.    I'd use the
> iPhone for GPS, but I have a lousy data plan, so it's not an option at 
> this
> point.
>
> The advice I'm getting from GDA is to leave Paige at home and use my cane 
> in
> unfamiliar areas until I know how things feel so I can give Paige accurate
> directions.  Guys, this frankly sounds unrealistic.  Sure, a cane is a
> valuable tool to have in the tool box, and I have no problems using it if 
> we
> become disoriented for some reason.  But using it instead of the dog in
> unfamiliar areas seems like it defeats the purpose of the dog.  What about
> unplanned trips or or having one of those days where it's really nice out
> and I think  "Hey, let's check out what's down that street."
>
> I'm not bashing or saying anything negative about GDA or the staff, yada,
> yada.  I'm only asking other grads how they handle their dogs in areas 
> where
> there aren't textbook curbs.
> Any and all input is welcome.
>
> Lisa
>
>
> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>
> In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth... After that,
> everything else was Made in China.
>
>
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