[NAGDU] Anxiety/crate
Peter Wolf
pwolf1 at wolfskills.com
Thu Oct 6 16:57:58 UTC 2016
I like what Tami said. I think it is sound. I don’t have issues with others, I just like this.
For me, it’s not the object (crate) that is a problem. I agree a tie down in the long run might be better because that is what you’ll actually do at times in daily life. But:
It is ALL about relationship and that dogs just insanely LOVE to work with clear roles and expectations. They don’t even know this yet as puppies, but it’s hard wired into them as a pleasure circuit. Gradual training can be done fast - with this - just get clear in *yourself* that what you may yesterday have thought as training being “too fast” for what you want to accomplish - actually it is our issue, not the dog's. They don’t carry psychological baggage (beliefs) like our awesome leaden brains do.
Metukah is incredibly bright - but this is not a “daddy’s little angel” thing. Dogs generally, just are very bright. We just came to recognize fast this time because silkens happen to communicate more loudly in their delicate silent sort of way - through cues and intuition, and any other dog I’ve met. So let the Silken people teach us all something, that dogs are brighter than us for training when we are clear. The point isn’t about her being special - it is that she presented a teaching opportunity to me to recognize my own beliefs about how long it takes to train a dog.
When I want her to learn something new, I use tiny treats, and treats only ever for training. Never “just because I love you”. Use big super loving praise and excited snuggles and squishes, not just an “ataboy”. I only have to ask her between four and six times, and she gets it. A little tune up as we go later, and done. So in other words, you two can get it, Believe it! It is in the sincerity - (your) sincerity of what you absolutely expect. So get down to this task and train it wholeheartedly and often. Whether crate or tie down, this is what I have found to be the essence. I too think that you will have to break it down into micro steps. This way, each step extends the dog feeling safe and comfortable in they crate or tie down environment that you are asking for, until the dog is there, in a good place trained for. Be sure to come back often for a while to praise and love up when it’s finally been going ok.
-Peter
On Oct 5, 2016, at 5:00 AM, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
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> 1. Re: Treating What Could be Separation Anxiety (Aleeha Dudley)
> 2. Re: Treating What Could be Separation Anxiety (Donna St. John)
> 3. Re: Treating What Could be Separation Anxiety (Joe Orozco)
> 4. Re: Treating What Could be Separation Anxiety (cindyray at gmail.com)
> 5. Re: Treating What Could be Separation Anxiety (Tami Jarvis)
> 6. Re: Treating What Could be Separation Anxiety (Julie J.)
> 7. Re: Treating What Could be Separation Anxiety (S L Johnson)
> 8. {Spam?} it may be useful (nagdu)
> 9. {Definitely Spam?} simply the coolest thing (nagdu)
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 08:42:20 -0500
> From: Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Treating What Could be Separation Anxiety
> Message-ID: <88371321-85F8-4CE7-992A-658B82913B4B at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> AHi Joe,
> The first thing I would suggest, as much as possible, is to begin with a short time in the crate, gradually increasing the time left alone. If the long periods of time are unavoidable, perhaps music or a toy could help. Another alternative would be playing some sort of talk radio.
> HTH,
> Aleeha and Whitley
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 3, 2016, at 8:25 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi, Joe,
>> While I am not suggesting that this shouldn?t be the case, what is the work that the dog must be left for several hours at a time in a crate? Also, one suggestion I might have would be if the person put something in the crate that the dog associates with him/her, or perhaps a toy. Also, I am wondering if the person could practice crating the dog in a simulated situation like that during the off work hours so it can adjust.
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: Joe via NAGDU
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 15:56:53 +0000 (UTC)
> From: "Donna St. John" <furkids4me at yahoo.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Treating What Could be Separation Anxiety
> Message-ID: <1416748250.478051.1475596613609 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I have a few questions before I input my thoughts.
> Is the dog crated where it can still see and hear people?? What does the dog do if it is simply on lead, lying down without direct attention given to it?
> Donna and Elsa
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 13:15:45 -0400
> From: Joe Orozco <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Treating What Could be Separation Anxiety
> Message-ID:
> <CAMEPVZ4OyKAPpnX_uJtqpH3bvwU8q7Qk+WE=FYR6QMj5qaPO8A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi, thanks to the replies thus far.
>
> To answer your specific questions, the dog has been positioned in a
> crate in someone?s office. Though the door can be closed, the dog can
> naturally still hear other people walking about. Presumably it can
> still sense its handler when they are in proximity, hence giving voice
> to the incessant barking. When on leash, the dog can lie still and
> behave itself. Unfortunately, maintaining the dog on leash with
> another employee is not an ideal arrangement, because it cannot always
> be guaranteed an employee will be available.
>
> Again, this is only a temporary period. Yet, it?s something we?re
> hoping can be addressed. I?ve looked through two popular books,
> Culture Clash and The Other End of the Leash. If anyone else has
> specific suggestions and/or other book references, please let me know.
> Thank you all kindly in advance for your help.
>
> Joe
>
>
> On 10/4/16, Donna St. John via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I have a few questions before I input my thoughts.
>> Is the dog crated where it can still see and hear people?? What does the dog
>> do if it is simply on lead, lying down without direct attention given to it?
>> Donna and Elsa
>>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 12:55:31 -0500
> From: <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: Joe Orozco via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Treating What Could be Separation Anxiety
> Message-ID: <57f3ed16.d73c240a.9e3a4.4b46 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Could the office door be left open so the dog could see others walking around? Could it be left on leash rather than crated and tied to say a sturdy chair or table instead? Do you know if the dog is crated at home. If not, that is likely a great lot of the problem. Then it would be good to do as Aleha suggested and give short times in the crate that would be increased.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Joe Orozco via NAGDU
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 11:10:43 -0700
> From: Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Treating What Could be Separation Anxiety
> Message-ID: <08af4abd-ea4f-f6ba-bf53-8b183ba8c7ed at poodlemutt.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Joe,
>
> The method I used for crate training Loki is from the Training Levels by
> Sue Ailsby. Her website is www.sue-eh.ca. I'll give a brief description
> of the method. It worked wonders with Loki, who freaked out in the crate
> at first. He was totally calm about absolutely everything else, but I
> thought he would tear the crate apart the first time I put him in.
> Yikes! So I worked through Sue's method very slowly, and now he is a
> crate-loving critter. He was a puppy, so it might go differently with an
> adult dog. It involves treats and lures, too, but could perhaps be
> adapted if the handler does not want to use food in the training.
>
> To start, lure the dog into the crate and reward the dog for going into
> the crate. That's it. Do this a few times until the dog will go into the
> crate on command. Once the dog is comfortable going into the crate, wait
> a bit beside the crate with the door open. Reward the dog for staying in
> the crate. Repeat as necessary. Next step is to close the door without
> locking it, staying by the crate. If the dog complains, ignore the dog.
> The instant the dog quiets, open the door and reward the dog. Repeat
> until the dog is quiet. Lengthen the time you wait to open the door
> until the dog can be quiet with you there consistently. Then lock the
> door and begin the process of moving away until you can go into the next
> room without the dog throwing a fit.
>
> I also fed Loki in his crate, using the same process of leaving the door
> open, then closing it without locking it, then locking it and moving
> away, etc., etc. Since I was feeding him 4 times a day at that point, he
> got lots of practice. He still did a lot of yowling for quite awhile,
> being a very vocal puppy.
>
> The key to convincing the dog to be quiet in the crate is to never open
> the crate while the dog is carrying on. When you're away from the crate,
> don't even start towards it when the dog is fussing. The instant the dog
> is quiet, turn towards the crate and approach until the dog vocalizes,
> then stop and stare off at something else or turn away until the dog is
> quiet.
>
> I assume the dog you're talking about is generally crate-trained, so the
> process may go faster than with a puppy. The main thing is to teach the
> dog that the crate does not equal total abandonment and also that
> throwing fits in the crate will not get the dog what it wants. Being
> quiet in the crate *will* get the dog what it wants, which is release
> from the crate and reunion with the handler. Gradually extending the
> time the dog is in the crate without the handler in view can help a dog
> with abandonment issues learn to be quiet and wait patiently. At least
> it worked that way with Loki. We were able to get away with the "stuff
> the puppy in the crate" method with Zay, my husband's dog. Good thing,
> because we ended up having a lot going on with family stuff when she was
> young. But that method was a nonstarter with Mr. Freak Out, so I was
> glad some friends had put me onto the Training Levels with that miracle
> method for him. Whew!
>
> hth,
>
> Tami
>
>
> On 10/04/2016 10:15 AM, Joe Orozco via NAGDU wrote:
>> Hi, thanks to the replies thus far.
>>
>> To answer your specific questions, the dog has been positioned in a
>> crate in someone?s office. Though the door can be closed, the dog can
>> naturally still hear other people walking about. Presumably it can
>> still sense its handler when they are in proximity, hence giving voice
>> to the incessant barking. When on leash, the dog can lie still and
>> behave itself. Unfortunately, maintaining the dog on leash with
>> another employee is not an ideal arrangement, because it cannot always
>> be guaranteed an employee will be available.
>>
>> Again, this is only a temporary period. Yet, it?s something we?re
>> hoping can be addressed. I?ve looked through two popular books,
>> Culture Clash and The Other End of the Leash. If anyone else has
>> specific suggestions and/or other book references, please let me know.
>> Thank you all kindly in advance for your help.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>> On 10/4/16, Donna St. John via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have a few questions before I input my thoughts.
>>> Is the dog crated where it can still see and hear people? What does the dog
>>> do if it is simply on lead, lying down without direct attention given to it?
>>> Donna and Elsa
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 13:34:26 -0500
> From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Treating What Could be Separation Anxiety
> Message-ID: <74480826E5F6460699EF9B5D1347A471 at JuliePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
> reply-type=original
>
> It might help to put the crate in a place where the dog can't see or hear
> the handler. Music or some sort of background noise, like the talk radio
> idea, can help cover up noises the dog may be reacting to.
>
> Sometimes putting a cover over the crate can help. This is more useful with
> the wire style crates. Some dogs settle better in a den like environment.
> Warnings with the cover...be sure the dog can't chew it or pull it inside
> the crate. Be sure it won't make the dog too hot or limit air circulation
> too much.
>
> Ideally using the crate for short amounts of time and working up slowly to
> hours would be ideal. It doesn't sound like that is possible though. You
> could also try using a phone to talk to the dog. Don't laugh just yet. So
> you need two phones, one near the dog and one for yourself. If the dog
> begins to be agitated or bark, you can talk to the dog, giving praise or
> verbal reprimands as the situation warrants. this is only going to work
> with a dog who responds well to verbal coaching. It would be fairly easy to
> set up though and perhaps worth a try.
>
> There are lots of products on the market that are supposed to help with
> anxiety. I've tried some of them and they do work, to a limited degree. In
> this situation I think music is the most likely to help. You can purchase
> music that is specific to calming dogs, or claims too anyway. It's called
> Through a Dog's Ear by Lisa Spector. I have some of the CD's and they do
> work, although I haven't compared them for effectiveness against just your
> basic classical music station.
>
> I hope something in there is helpful. Good luck!
> Julie
> New lowered price on my book:
> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Orozco via NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 12:15 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Joe Orozco
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Treating What Could be Separation Anxiety
>
> Hi, thanks to the replies thus far.
>
> To answer your specific questions, the dog has been positioned in a
> crate in someone?s office. Though the door can be closed, the dog can
> naturally still hear other people walking about. Presumably it can
> still sense its handler when they are in proximity, hence giving voice
> to the incessant barking. When on leash, the dog can lie still and
> behave itself. Unfortunately, maintaining the dog on leash with
> another employee is not an ideal arrangement, because it cannot always
> be guaranteed an employee will be available.
>
> Again, this is only a temporary period. Yet, it?s something we?re
> hoping can be addressed. I?ve looked through two popular books,
> Culture Clash and The Other End of the Leash. If anyone else has
> specific suggestions and/or other book references, please let me know.
> Thank you all kindly in advance for your help.
>
> Joe
>
>
> On 10/4/16, Donna St. John via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I have a few questions before I input my thoughts.
>> Is the dog crated where it can still see and hear people? What does the
>> dog
>> do if it is simply on lead, lying down without direct attention given to
>> it?
>> Donna and Elsa
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
>>
>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 17:10:43 -0400
> From: "S L Johnson" <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Treating What Could be Separation Anxiety
> Message-ID: <8B7DF94186274E668CFBA6E91DB7876E at SLJohnson>
>
> Hello Joe:
>
> First I would never take a job where my dog would not be able to be with me.
> furthermore, some dogs just hate a crate. I personally do not use them
> because I think they are a form of cruel punishment. No dog deserves to be
> stuffed into a crate. You should consider using a tie-down where the dog
> would still be able to see you and be safely out of the way. This can be
> achieved by wrapping the tie-down around the leg of something that cannot be
> moved. Otherwise, screw an eye-bolt into the baseboard or wall, be sure it
> is not just dry wall but the stud. I have done this at work and found it to
> work quite well. The dog is restrained but is still able to see you and lye
> comfortably on a rug, blanket or bed while you go about doing your work. A
> guide dog is naturally trained to stay with the handler. Therefore you can
> expect the dog to be very upset when separated. If you insist on allowing
> yourself to be separated from your dog, you must start slow and gradual.
> Leave the dog for just a few minutes but stay within the area so you can
> hear the dog's reaction to being left. Hopefully the dog will respond to a
> verbal reprimand to be quiet. As the dog remains quiet, then gradually
> increase the length of time until you reach your desired length of time left
> alone. Sometimes it helps to let the dog have a favorite rug or blanket as
> well as a favorite bone and cuddly toy.
>
> Sandra and Eva
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2016 9:00 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Joe
> Subject: [NAGDU] Treating What Could be Separation Anxiety
>
> Hello,
>
> I have a situation with a dog that is experiencing something that may or may
> not be separation anxiety. Because of the profession, the guide dog must be
> left in a crate for a few hours at a time while the individual completes
> tasks away from the dog. The dog proceeds to bark incessantly until it is
> given attention or taken out of the crate and held on leash. Does anyone
> have suggestions on how the dog can be sufficiently calmed during this
> temporary period? The dog's demeanor is otherwise pleasant. Their work has
> not suffered from these periods of not being used. The nature of the job
> prohibits the use of the dog, so recommending exceptions, while
> well-intentioned, would not make for a workable solution. Thank you kindly
> in advance for any tips and/or referrals to great resources you can
> personally point to.
>
> Best,
>
> Joe
>
> --
> Musings of a Work in Progress:
> www.JoeOrozco.com/
>
> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: RANDOM_Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:37:56 +0300
> From: nagdu <chasityvanda at charter.net>
> To: "Danielle Burton" <danielleburton94 at gmail.com>, "Nagdu"
> <Nagdu at nfbnet.org>, "Debra Baker" <bakerdebra53 at gmail.com>, "Daryl
> Marie" <crazymusician at shaw.ca>, "S L Johnson"
> <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
> Subject: [NAGDU] {Spam?} it may be useful
> Message-ID: <000011ebd248$c36282fc$d3580b25$@charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Greetings!
>
> I've got some interesting info that may be really useful for you, just take a look <http://fiorenzo.citygossip.com/lndwhn>
>
> nagdu
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: RANDOM_Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:41:01 +0300
> From: nagdu <chasityvanda at charter.net>
> To: "Kerri Stovall" <spedangel84 at gmail.com>, "Carlos Montas"
> <carlos.montas at att.net>, "nagdu-leaders" <nagdu-leaders at nfbnet.org>,
> "NAGDU Mailing Listthe National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>, "Paul Denning" <pauld452 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [NAGDU] {Definitely Spam?} simply the coolest thing
> Message-ID: <0000124ec5aa$438e47a1$300cdd8a$@charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi!
>
> Look at that cool thing, I think this is simply the coolest thing I've ever seen, check it out <http://original.suukmalta.com/lnweebgf>
>
>
> Bests, nagdu
>
>
>
>
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>
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