[NAGDU] Guide dogs in school districts

Michael Hingson mike at michaelhingson.com
Thu Feb 9 21:50:15 UTC 2017


Hi Matt,

I received my first guide dog, Squire, over the summer before entering high
school. It does depend on maturity, but with a good teaching support system
at home and at school getting a guide dog early is a great character
builder. 


Best Regards,


Michael Hingson

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Matt Hackert via
NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 1:44 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Matt Hackert <matt.hackert at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide dogs in school districts

Thank you for speaking out on these issues, Michael; I had the same
reaction, but was a little reticent about replying, although I really had no
need to be.

I also have some misgivings about the idea of getting a guide dog while
still in high school, although it's hard to state that as more than just a
matter of personal opinion.  Definitely, strong cane skills should be a
prerequisite, and it takes a lot of maturity to handle the general public's
reaction to a guide dog, and I would have to imagine that it's even more
challenging to deal with one's peers in high school.  I found it difficult
enough while an undergraduate.

But, it does sounds like the decision has already been made, and this may be
a moot point.  But do others on the list have thoughts as to how appropriate
it is to work a guide dog while still in high school?  I'm definitely
interested in others' opinions and would enjoy the discussion.

Kind regards,
Matt

Matt.hackert at gmail.com


-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Hingson
via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 1:52 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Michael Hingson <mike at michaelhingson.com>; 'Ann Edie'
<Annedie at nycap.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide dogs in school districts

Hi Ann,

Not Marion, but I'm contributing a bit anyway. I just want to comment on
emergencies and special accommodations. I think the TVI demonstrates full
well why they need better training. The whole point of a fire drill is to
teach everyone involved how to react in the case of an emergency. We do not
get advanced warnings of unexpected things that happen to us. As you well
know how the dog reacts in such situations depends on how the handler
reacts. Advanced warning to a student seems not only to be
counterproductive, but it is philosophically inappropriate. Blind students,
using dogs or canes or other devices, should not get advanced warning. The
idea is not to make life easier, but to teach where to go and what to do. If
the student should be doing anything it should be to help make certain that
teachers and staff know how to ensure that the blind student has the
necessary information to react and function efficiently during an emergency
or whatever condition occurs.

Also, leaving class early to make certain that the student gets to the next
class on time is not appropriate. School needs to help teach any student of
their responsibilities in life. The student should learn how to get to class
in the allotted time just as any other student needs to do. The whole point
of using a guide dog or cane is to help students travel around in our
environments. The student, if he or she does not know how to get around
campus, should take time with teachers and parents outside class hours to
learn how to get around. Unfortunately, learning shortcuts and such are
things we memorize rather than just seeing how others go, but even so
traveling with other students will most likely help the blind student learn
ways they might not learn otherwise. No matter what, we must take the extra
time outside class to make sure that we know how to get around in a timely
manner.

There is no good excuse for taking extra time to get to class if we are
dealing with a mobile student who can walk in a typical manner. If and only
if the student has some other mobility disability should any extra time be
considered. We all have learned through personal experience that if we want
to be held to the same standards as others and if we want to be successful
in the eyes of society then we must first hold ourselves to at least as high
a standard.

Of course you know all this. Feel free to pass this along if it will help. 


Best Regards,


Michael Hingson

The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
"Speaking with Vision"
Michael Hingson, President
(415) 827-4084
info at michaelhingson.com
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Michael Hingson's speaking availability for your next event please visit:
www.michaelhingson.com
 
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-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ann Edie via
NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 11:15 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Ann Edie <Annedie at nycap.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide dogs in school districts

Hi, Marion,

Since the guide dog user in question is seeking employment within a school
district, wouldn't that case be covered under the anti-discrimination
provisions of the Rehabilitation Act? Or would both the ADA and the
Rehabilitation Act apply?

While we're on the topic of guide dog use in schools-- I have recently been
approached by a TVI about planning for a high school student who will be
going for guide dog training this summer and returning to high school next
year. The TVI wants to know what provisions to put in the student's IEP
concerning use of the guide dog in school. She is thinking of putting in
such stipulations as the following: 1) The student will be permitted to
leave classes to travel to the next class 5 minutes early; 2) the guide dog
shall accompany the student during all activities and locations during the
school day, including lunch, physical education, and after-school
activities; and the student will have notice of times of the first few
fire/emergency drills so that they can practice procedures with the guide
dog. My first reaction to this  is to suggest to the TVI that she think of
the guide dog in the same way that she would think of a mobility-impaired
student's wheelchair, That it is assumed that the device will be used
everywhere within the school setting, and that if any special arrangements
need to be made, that the user should be the one to initiate/request them
after they receive instruction in the use and care of the guide dog from the
training program. My suggestion would be for the student to make a
presentation to the teachers/administration of the school after receiving
training, at or before the start of the new school year, explaining how the
guide dog will be used and making it clear that the guide dog user is fully
responsible for the dog and its behavior. The student should emphasize that
everyone else, students and staff, is to ignore the guide dog and not
interfere with its use. If any alterations of procedure are required, such
as leaving class early or special provisions during fire drills, that it is
the student who should initiate discussion of these needs and possible
solutions. The student and/or administrators may want to make presentations
to groups of students--the student's classmates or larger groups--to explain
guide dog etiquette at the beginning of the school year.
I believe that the school administrators' responsibility is to enforce the
rule that others ignore the dog and not interfere with its use, and to
otherwise facilitate the student's independent travel and responsibility
with respect to the guide dog. If anyone is experiencing a problem with
respect to the behavior or use of the guide dog, such as the guide dog
sniffing or licking other students who may be allergic or fearful of dogs,
that these issues should be brought directly to the attention of the guide
dog user and solutions found through discussion among the guide dog user,
the affected persons, and school staff. I think the guide dog training
program may provide the student with some educational materials on how guide
dogs are used within schools for the student to share upon their return to
school. Do you know of any Q/A pamphlets or on-line materials that explain
school district roles and responsibilities with regard to guide dog use by
students under the ADA, Rehabilitation Act, and IDEA? I know that school
districts often bring up issues of liability and possible allergy issues of
other students or staff. Is there case law or other official information
about how these issues should be handled?

Sorry for all the questions, but I want to give this teacher the best
possible information to help the student be successful and make the
experience a positive one for the school community.

Ann

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of NAGDU President
via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 8:05 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: NAGDU President
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide dogs in school districts

Nancy,

	The short answer to your question is that public schools are Title
II entities. Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act requires
entities to modify their policies, practices, and procedures to allow an
individual with a disability the right to be accompanied by a service dog
unless doing so creates a direct threat, defined as a significant risk to
the health or safety of others that cannot be eliminated by a modification
of policies, practices, or procedures, if the dog is not housebroken, or if
the dog is out of control and the handler does not take immediate, effective
measures to correct the behavior. . The argument that the presence of the
dog is a liability issue would need to be demonstrated by objective
evidence; it cannot be assumed to be so. 

	I would be happy to discuss this issue with the person involved to
offer guidance on how to advocate for themself and, if needed, to intervene
as anadvocate for them. My contact information is below my signature, if you
or the person wishes to discuss this further.

Fraternally yours,

Marion Gwizdala, President
National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU) National Federation of
the Blind
(813) 626-2789
President at NAGDU.ORG


The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind  people
and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds
you back.


-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nancy VanderBrink
via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 8:10 AM
To: Nancy VanderBrink via Nagdu
Cc: Nancy VanderBrink
Subject: [NAGDU] Guide dogs in school districts

Good morning all,

I come before your collective wisdom to put before you a question of access
versus liability.

A friend of mine is working on getting her bachelors degree in special
education and wants to eventually move into my states TVI preparation
program.  What is interesting is that rather than her being able to do her
student teaching in a  school that is on a bus line and that is also
relatively close to her university has nothing to do with the fact that
other students from her class are in these schools, as we thought.
Rather, it has to do with the fact that the superintendent of the school
district said that he did not want a guide dog in his school district.
What is interesting to me is that I am a service provider working with a
contractor that provides services in the school district. I serve students
in this district twice a month. I have had no problems with administration
or staff or students.
So, I am thinking that this comes down to a matter of liability and that it
is different because I do not work for the school district.  I am not an
independent contractor, rather I work for an agency that contracts with the
school district-and I just so happen to have a guide dog.  

So what I am thinking is that they, meaning the district, could say to a
potential employee 'we do not want you here because you have a guide dog'
but they cannot say that to me because I work for the agency they contracts
with and they cannot say to them that they do not want me as an employee of
that other agency in their school district.

So, essentially what I am getting down to is that this sounds like a
violation of this university students right to access. What I am wondering
is are they able to get away with this legally because they are dealing with
the premise of liability and the potential liability for the district if
that students dog were to bite a child.

I believe I have heard other stories on this list of people that have had
similar issues but I wondered if your collective wisdom knew of anything
that I could pass along to the student.

Thanks,
Nancy

Sent from my iPhone
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