[NAGDU] Guide dogs in school districts

Thu Feb 9 22:00:55 UTC 2017

I know of 2 students who had guide dogs in high school and they were both
positive experiences. I worked in schools with my guide dog. I did have to
retire one when I first began working in schools because children made him
extremely nervous. The school considered the working conditions when I
trained with the next dog. I don't think any special information needs to
be in the IEP. If the student is mature enough to have a guide dog then
he/she should be mature enough to advocate for herself if any situations
come up.

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 4:43 PM, Matt Hackert via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> Thank you for speaking out on these issues, Michael; I had the same
> reaction, but was a little reticent about replying, although I really had
> no
> need to be.
>
> I also have some misgivings about the idea of getting a guide dog while
> still in high school, although it's hard to state that as more than just a
> matter of personal opinion.  Definitely, strong cane skills should be a
> prerequisite, and it takes a lot of maturity to handle the general public's
> reaction to a guide dog, and I would have to imagine that it's even more
> challenging to deal with one's peers in high school.  I found it difficult
> enough while an undergraduate.
>
> But, it does sounds like the decision has already been made, and this may
> be
> a moot point.  But do others on the list have thoughts as to how
> appropriate
> it is to work a guide dog while still in high school?  I'm definitely
> interested in others' opinions and would enjoy the discussion.
>
> Kind regards,
> Matt
>
> Matt.hackert at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Hingson
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 1:52 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Michael Hingson <mike at michaelhingson.com>; 'Ann Edie'
> <Annedie at nycap.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide dogs in school districts
>
> Hi Ann,
>
> Not Marion, but I'm contributing a bit anyway. I just want to comment on
> emergencies and special accommodations. I think the TVI demonstrates full
> well why they need better training. The whole point of a fire drill is to
> teach everyone involved how to react in the case of an emergency. We do not
> get advanced warnings of unexpected things that happen to us. As you well
> know how the dog reacts in such situations depends on how the handler
> reacts. Advanced warning to a student seems not only to be
> counterproductive, but it is philosophically inappropriate. Blind students,
> using dogs or canes or other devices, should not get advanced warning. The
> idea is not to make life easier, but to teach where to go and what to do.
> If
> the student should be doing anything it should be to help make certain that
> teachers and staff know how to ensure that the blind student has the
> necessary information to react and function efficiently during an emergency
> or whatever condition occurs.
>
> Also, leaving class early to make certain that the student gets to the next
> class on time is not appropriate. School needs to help teach any student of
> their responsibilities in life. The student should learn how to get to
> class
> in the allotted time just as any other student needs to do. The whole point
> of using a guide dog or cane is to help students travel around in our
> environments. The student, if he or she does not know how to get around
> campus, should take time with teachers and parents outside class hours to
> learn how to get around. Unfortunately, learning shortcuts and such are
> things we memorize rather than just seeing how others go, but even so
> traveling with other students will most likely help the blind student learn
> ways they might not learn otherwise. No matter what, we must take the extra
> time outside class to make sure that we know how to get around in a timely
> manner.
>
> There is no good excuse for taking extra time to get to class if we are
> dealing with a mobile student who can walk in a typical manner. If and only
> if the student has some other mobility disability should any extra time be
> considered. We all have learned through personal experience that if we want
> to be held to the same standards as others and if we want to be successful
> in the eyes of society then we must first hold ourselves to at least as
> high
> a standard.
>
> Of course you know all this. Feel free to pass this along if it will help.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
> "Speaking with Vision"
> Michael Hingson, President
> (415) 827-4084
> info at michaelhingson.com
> To order Michael Hingson's new book, Running With Roselle, and check on
> Michael Hingson's speaking availability for your next event please visit:
> www.michaelhingson.com
>
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> animal artist, Ron Burns, please visit http://www.ronburns.com/roselle
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ann Edie via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 11:15 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Ann Edie <Annedie at nycap.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide dogs in school districts
>
> Hi, Marion,
>
> Since the guide dog user in question is seeking employment within a school
> district, wouldn't that case be covered under the anti-discrimination
> provisions of the Rehabilitation Act? Or would both the ADA and the
> Rehabilitation Act apply?
>
> While we're on the topic of guide dog use in schools-- I have recently been
> approached by a TVI about planning for a high school student who will be
> going for guide dog training this summer and returning to high school next
> year. The TVI wants to know what provisions to put in the student's IEP
> concerning use of the guide dog in school. She is thinking of putting in
> such stipulations as the following: 1) The student will be permitted to
> leave classes to travel to the next class 5 minutes early; 2) the guide dog
> shall accompany the student during all activities and locations during the
> school day, including lunch, physical education, and after-school
> activities; and the student will have notice of times of the first few
> fire/emergency drills so that they can practice procedures with the guide
> dog. My first reaction to this  is to suggest to the TVI that she think of
> the guide dog in the same way that she would think of a mobility-impaired
> student's wheelchair, That it is assumed that the device will be used
> everywhere within the school setting, and that if any special arrangements
> need to be made, that the user should be the one to initiate/request them
> after they receive instruction in the use and care of the guide dog from
> the
> training program. My suggestion would be for the student to make a
> presentation to the teachers/administration of the school after receiving
> training, at or before the start of the new school year, explaining how the
> guide dog will be used and making it clear that the guide dog user is fully
> responsible for the dog and its behavior. The student should emphasize that
> everyone else, students and staff, is to ignore the guide dog and not
> interfere with its use. If any alterations of procedure are required, such
> as leaving class early or special provisions during fire drills, that it is
> the student who should initiate discussion of these needs and possible
> solutions. The student and/or administrators may want to make presentations
> to groups of students--the student's classmates or larger groups--to
> explain
> guide dog etiquette at the beginning of the school year.
> I believe that the school administrators' responsibility is to enforce the
> rule that others ignore the dog and not interfere with its use, and to
> otherwise facilitate the student's independent travel and responsibility
> with respect to the guide dog. If anyone is experiencing a problem with
> respect to the behavior or use of the guide dog, such as the guide dog
> sniffing or licking other students who may be allergic or fearful of dogs,
> that these issues should be brought directly to the attention of the guide
> dog user and solutions found through discussion among the guide dog user,
> the affected persons, and school staff. I think the guide dog training
> program may provide the student with some educational materials on how
> guide
> dogs are used within schools for the student to share upon their return to
> school. Do you know of any Q/A pamphlets or on-line materials that explain
> school district roles and responsibilities with regard to guide dog use by
> students under the ADA, Rehabilitation Act, and IDEA? I know that school
> districts often bring up issues of liability and possible allergy issues of
> other students or staff. Is there case law or other official information
> about how these issues should be handled?
>
> Sorry for all the questions, but I want to give this teacher the best
> possible information to help the student be successful and make the
> experience a positive one for the school community.
>
> Ann
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of NAGDU President
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 8:05 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: NAGDU President
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide dogs in school districts
>
> Nancy,
>
>         The short answer to your question is that public schools are Title
> II entities. Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act requires
> entities to modify their policies, practices, and procedures to allow an
> individual with a disability the right to be accompanied by a service dog
> unless doing so creates a direct threat, defined as a significant risk to
> the health or safety of others that cannot be eliminated by a modification
> of policies, practices, or procedures, if the dog is not housebroken, or if
> the dog is out of control and the handler does not take immediate,
> effective
> measures to correct the behavior. . The argument that the presence of the
> dog is a liability issue would need to be demonstrated by objective
> evidence; it cannot be assumed to be so.
>
>         I would be happy to discuss this issue with the person involved to
> offer guidance on how to advocate for themself and, if needed, to intervene
> as anadvocate for them. My contact information is below my signature, if
> you
> or the person wishes to discuss this further.
>
> Fraternally yours,
>
> Marion Gwizdala, President
> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU) National Federation of
> the Blind
> (813) 626-2789
> President at NAGDU.ORG
>
>
> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind  people
> and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds
> you back.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nancy
> VanderBrink
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 8:10 AM
> To: Nancy VanderBrink via Nagdu
> Cc: Nancy VanderBrink
> Subject: [NAGDU] Guide dogs in school districts
>
> Good morning all,
>
> I come before your collective wisdom to put before you a question of access
> versus liability.
>
> A friend of mine is working on getting her bachelors degree in special
> education and wants to eventually move into my states TVI preparation
> program.  What is interesting is that rather than her being able to do her
> student teaching in a  school that is on a bus line and that is also
> relatively close to her university has nothing to do with the fact that
> other students from her class are in these schools, as we thought.
> Rather, it has to do with the fact that the superintendent of the school
> district said that he did not want a guide dog in his school district.
> What is interesting to me is that I am a service provider working with a
> contractor that provides services in the school district. I serve students
> in this district twice a month. I have had no problems with administration
> or staff or students.
> So, I am thinking that this comes down to a matter of liability and that it
> is different because I do not work for the school district.  I am not an
> independent contractor, rather I work for an agency that contracts with the
> school district-and I just so happen to have a guide dog.
>
> So what I am thinking is that they, meaning the district, could say to a
> potential employee 'we do not want you here because you have a guide dog'
> but they cannot say that to me because I work for the agency they contracts
> with and they cannot say to them that they do not want me as an employee of
> that other agency in their school district.
>
> So, essentially what I am getting down to is that this sounds like a
> violation of this university students right to access. What I am wondering
> is are they able to get away with this legally because they are dealing
> with
> the premise of liability and the potential liability for the district if
> that students dog were to bite a child.
>
> I believe I have heard other stories on this list of people that have had
> similar issues but I wondered if your collective wisdom knew of anything
> that I could pass along to the student.
>
> Thanks,
> Nancy
>
> Sent from my iPhone
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-- 
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053