[NAGDU] Service dog license

Sun Feb 12 06:46:59 UTC 2017

Ms. Jameyanne,Rathe than showing an illegal ID for Mopsy, respectfully, would it not make a bit more sense to carry and distribute business sized cards with the ADA Service Animal provisions printed on them? Because, yes ma'am, you are indeed negatively impacting Service Animal teams that follow you by creating an expectation in the gatekeeper to see an ID from every Service Animal team that comes along after you.

Yours, Very Sincerely And Respectfully,

Wayne M. Scace 

-------- Original message --------
From: Jameyanne Fuller via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
Date: 2/12/2017  00:22  (GMT-06:00) 
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
Cc: Jameyanne Fuller <jameyanne at gmail.com> 
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license 

Hello all from snowy Cambridge,
I haven't posted on here much because law school has eaten my life (Mopsy is
loving Harvard, though), but I have been lurking. I've always been curious
about a service dog license law, so I'm chiming in with some thoughts.
The ADA limits the sorts of questions you can ask about a person's
disability, including why you have a service dog, and that's what a service
dog license would violate. I may have missed something else more specific
though. It's been a while since I read the ADA.
I've always been personally conflicted about a service dog license law. I
feel like it would discourage fakers, and the number of times I'm told by
business people that people have tried to fake bringing service dogs into
places and then the dogs have reeked havoc is really upsetting, because it
means the business person automatically doesn't trust me or Mopsy. 
Setting aside the issues with the ADA for the moment, I don't think it's the
sort of law that could be implemented in one state because it would limit
people's freedom of movement (we don't have to get a license to go on
vacation). 
And there's also the issue Daryl raised about being asked to show the
license multiple times a day, which is really upsetting. 
There may be a way to implement something that would limit fakers and
preserve our rights at the same time. Unfortunately I've been doing legal
research all day on another issue and my brain is kind of fried so I can't
come up with a creative solution at the moment, but I'll continue to think
about it.
I do have to say that I carry Mopsy's seeing eye ID with me everywhere, and
I have no problem showing it to someone who asks for proof that Mopsy is a
service dog. I know I don't have to do this, and I've even had people tell
me that by showing Mopsy's ID I'm hurting people with service dogs who don't
have IDs. But it's a whole lot simpler to just show the ID than fighting
back when I have the ID. I can't fight on every issue. I also inform them
that while I have an ID, not all schools give IDs, and under the ADA they
can't legally ask for an ID in the first place. I recognize that it may not
always be effective to give them the proof they ask for while at the same
time telling them they can't legally ask for it, but I've found people tend
to be much more sensitive to this after I have shown them the ID and
legitimized myself. They're much more willing to talk and learn.
So I guess my point is, it's complicated. I understand and agree with both
the reasons for such a law and the reasons against it. I agree that without
safeguards, a service dog license law would be a violation of our rights.
But at the same time, something has to be done about the fakers.
Stay warm!
Jameyanne and Mopsy
jameyanne at gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary Steeves via
NAGDU
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 12:54 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Gary Steeves <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license

Hi Daryl what province is it in

On February 11, 2017 9:09:40 PM PST, Daryl via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
>I live in Canada, and one of our provinces has enacted such a law. It's
>honestly been incredibly frustrating. People who live there have told
>me that just by going about their business with their service dogs,
>they are asked for identifying documents several times a day. One has
>even told me that she is reluctant to leave her house with her service
>dog because she gets asked for paperwork so frequently. They have not
>addressed the issue of owner trainers, or visitors to the province. For
>example, if I travel there on a family emergency, I can pre apply for a
>temporary ID card. This greatly restrict the movement of Canadian
>citizens, which is against the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If you
>are getting asked for ID when you buy alcohol or verify your ID when
>writing checks, it's because everybody gets ask for that information.
>You personally are not targeted.
>
>On February 11, 2017 10:02:11 PM MST, Nancy VanderBrink via NAGDU
><nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>Dar,
>>Apologies, I forgot about those groups, didn't intend to.
>>
>>I have to show ID when I go to get alcohol though...  and for things
>>like writing checks and verifying my identity at the airport...
>>
>>Wouldn't something like this help with 'fakers'? 
>>
>>I wonder if there could even be some sort of accreditation process
>that
>>you could go through if you owner  trained or had somebody help you
>>train your dog to a group like IAADP?
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Feb 11, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Daryl via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>wrote:
>>> 
>>> I can't speak for anybody else, but as for myself I have big
>problems
>>with such an idea. It makes people with disabilities who use service
>>dogs targets for anybody who wants to see identifiable information.
>>Yes, to drive a car you need a license. But you are only requested for
>>that license if you are driving erratically. Also, if a person chooses
>>to owner train their dog, or if they're disability makes owner
>training
>>the only viable option, they are at a distinct disadvantage.
>>> 
>>>> On February 11, 2017 9:46:58 PM MST, Nancy VanderBrink via NAGDU
>><nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Hey guys,
>>>> So I'm going to make you mad at me but I don't
>>understandsomething...
>>>> 
>>>> If you have to get a license to drive why not one for a guide dog.
>>>> I know that people who were glasses are supposed to have their
>>picture
>>>> taken with her glasses on and I guess I wonder why he could not be
>>>> something like that but for us with our dog?
>>>> 
>>>> I know figuring out how to come up with some sort of database of
>>>> accredited schools and then how to figure out how to make sure
>these
>>>> places are accredited would be a process but I guess I kind of
>>wonder
>>>> if having it on something that already exists and is already
>>official
>>>> wouldn't that make it easier?
>>>> 
>>>> I mean, if I have to go get a new ID when I move wouldn't it make
>>sense
>>>> to just go get a new ID with your picture of you and your partner
>in
>>it
>>>> that way?
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not trying to ignite a fire storm or anything I just don't
>>really
>>>> understand why this is such a big deal. I understand the need for
>>>> privacy but I'm not even really saying that you have to say on
>there
>>>> why you have the dog I guess I really just kind of would think that
>>if
>>>> they could get accredited schools in a database and then the DMV
>>could
>>>> choose the school you went to given on some sort  of letter or
>>>> something, why is that bad???
>>>> 
>>>> Just trying to understand.
>>>> 
>>>> vandyvanderbrink at outlook.com
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
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