[NAGDU] Service dog license

Mon Feb 13 03:07:21 UTC 2017

I might also add that the identification cards that come from the guide dog schools are not certifications. They are simply cards to identify the person and the dog is having graduated from the school which is a nonprofit private organization.

I also think that any attempt to restrict the sale of guide dog harnesses and other service dog  equipment will only hurt legitimate users.

For that matter, you can buy a white cane online. That does not prove a person is blind anymore than buying a guide dog harness proves that I dog as a service dog

Jody

New phone number
603 757-9933

thunderwalker321 at gmail.com 

50 Years of Star Trek!
Live Long and Prosper!

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Ann Edie via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Julie, Nancy, and Everyone,
> 
> Julie did a very good job of explaining some of the reasons why service dog
> certification is not a good idea. In addition, I think the major deficiency
> of such a scheme is that it would in no way solve the problem of "fake"
> service dogs, which is supposedly the primary reason for certification. As
> Julie mentioned, doctors do not know the difference between service dogs for
> persons with disabilities, emotional support dogs, and social or companion
> dogs, any more than do other members of the general public. And they do not
> know the differences between the access provided by the ADA, the ACAA, and
> the Fair Housing Act. In fact, many persons with disabilities are not clear
> about these distinctions. Nevertheless, many doctors are very willing to
> give people letters stating that the person needs or would benefit from a
> dog or other animal. The doctors do not know or specify that the animal must
> be individually trained to perform tasks to mitigate the individual person's
> disability in order to qualify for access to places of public accommodation.
> Furthermore, service animal patches, vests, and identification cards or
> certificates are readily available from websites or can be made by
> individuals themselves. Would business owners be expected to check the
> individual's service dog licence against a list of "approved" providers or
> look the person up in a database of eligible individuals with disabilities
> before permitting the person to access the place of business or public
> accommodation? If so, both businesspersons and many service animal users
> would find this type of law not only burdensome, but also an invasion of
> privacy and an infringement on our freedom of access to public
> accommodations. In short, such a scheme is unworkable and antidemocratic,
> and does nothing to solve the perceived problem of "fake" service dogs.
> 
> Nancy, I too applaud your openness to informing yourself about the issues
> surrounding the topic of certification of service animals before forming
> your own opinion on the matter. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to
> think out loud and bounce these ideas around among those who would be most
> affected by such laws.
> 
> Ann
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie Johnson via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 5:23 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Julie Johnson
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
> 
> Nancy,
> 
> I appreciate your sincerity in wanting to address the situation.  I am also
> glad you are open to learning why this might or might not work.
> 
> First, who decides what programs are accredited?  The programs themselves? 
> The government?  Some other organization?  Who pays for this?   There is no 
> single accreditation entity for all guide, service, hearing, diabetic,
> psychiatric dog programs.  Would some of the programs be accredited and
> other types of disabilities would be out of luck?
> 
> Currently the laws in the U.S. state that a dog has to be individually
> trained to mitigate the handler's disability.  There is no mention of a
> program needing to do this training or the person needing to prove their
> disability.  In order to have an ID of some variety, you would not only need
> to list the dog, but the person would need to prove their disability.  As
> blind people we don't really find this to be a problem, but what about other
> disabilities.  I'm thinking those with a strong social bias like dogs who do
> 
> psychiatric tasks or seizure alert.   Who decides what is a disability? 
> Currently people self identify and in the case of a legal situation a judge
> decides if a disability is in fact present.  If we had to have ID's there is
> going to be a seriously long line for disability confirmations.  I have had
> it proposed that doctor's be the contact to determine disability and I think
> this is a very bad idea.  Doctor's understand the medical aspects of disease
> and disability, but they do not understand the legal side of the issue,
> which is what is needed in this situation.
> 
> Then we get to the people who do not go through a program for their dogs. 
> When it comes to programs for guide dogs, blind people have it made.  We
> have a wide selection of very low cost options with not too bad waiting
> lists.  That is not the case with every other type of disability.  The
> number of programs compared to the number of applicants is low, making for
> long waiting lists.  Frequently these programs charge large sums of money,
> in the thousands or tens of thousands, for their dogs.  This means there are
> a large number of people with disabilities that choose to owner train or
> have a dog privately trained faster and for less money.  This also allows
> for a greater flexibility in what training is provided, making the owner
> trained dog much more customized to the owners particular disability needs. 
> So who accredits these folks?
> 
> Then we get to the part that irritates me the most about the ID issue, well
> one of the parts anyway.  Why would the entire program be accredited instead
> of each individual team?  That feels like we are giving the program a free
> pass to slide through some dogs who are a little rough around the edges. 
> We've all encountered program dogs who were not pleasant and the handler
> couldn't or wouldn't do something to address the situation.  If we are going
> to do this ID thing, then folks who owner train and those who have program
> dogs must be treated equally.
> 
> I also agree wholeheartedly with Daryl about what she said about when a
> driver's license is shown vs. when this dog ID would be shown.  A Driver's
> License is never a condition of access.  You aren't asked for it when
> entering the grocery store, when you get in the car or when you sit down in
> the restaurant.  It can be used as proof of age or residency, but never as a
> condition of public access.  Requiring a different standard of community
> access for disabled people is highly discriminatory.
> 
> And yes, I owner train my dogs or in the case of the last one, had her
> privately trained.  I'm very happy with that choice and don't see myself
> changing anytime soon.
> 
> 
> Julie
> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daryl via NAGDU
> Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 10:53 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Daryl
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
> 
> I can't speak for anybody else, but as for myself I have big problems with
> such an idea. It makes people with disabilities who use service dogs targets
> for anybody who wants to see identifiable information. Yes, to drive a car
> you need a license. But you are only requested for that license if you are
> driving erratically. Also, if a person chooses to owner train their dog, or
> if they're disability makes owner training the only viable option, they are
> at a distinct disadvantage.
> 
> On February 11, 2017 9:46:58 PM MST, Nancy VanderBrink via NAGDU
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hey guys,
>> So I'm going to make you mad at me but I don't understandsomething...
>> 
>> If you have to get a license to drive why not one for a guide dog.
>> I know that people who were glasses are supposed to have their picture 
>> taken with her glasses on and I guess I wonder why he could not be 
>> something like that but for us with our dog?
>> 
>> I know figuring out how to come up with some sort of database of 
>> accredited schools and then how to figure out how to make sure these 
>> places are accredited would be a process but I guess I kind of wonder 
>> if having it on something that already exists and is already official 
>> wouldn't that make it easier?
>> 
>> I mean, if I have to go get a new ID when I move wouldn't it make sense 
>> to just go get a new ID with your picture of you and your partner in it 
>> that way?
>> 
>> I'm not trying to ignite a fire storm or anything I just don't really 
>> understand why this is such a big deal. I understand the need for 
>> privacy but I'm not even really saying that you have to say on there 
>> why you have the dog I guess I really just kind of would think that if 
>> they could get accredited schools in a database and then the DMV could 
>> choose the school you went to given on some sort  of letter or 
>> something, why is that bad???
>> 
>> Just trying to understand.
>> 
>> vandyvanderbrink at outlook.com
>> Sent from my iPhone
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