[NAGDU] Service dog license

Mon Feb 13 17:15:29 UTC 2017

OK, how about if we put the question of identification into perspective.  

Since the true question is whether the person has a legitimate disability to have a service dog with them, then why don't we require all blind people to have a den of Acacian cards proving they are blind?

Sound ridiculous? Yes! But basically that is what these identification cards would be.

Again, the addenda vacation cards that a person gets from their guide dog school is not a certification or a license it is simply a card showing that the person got the dog from that school which is a private nonprofit organization not a licensing or certification source. 

Jody

New phone number
603 757-9933

thunderwalker321 at gmail.com 

50 Years of Star Trek!
Live Long and Prosper!

> On Feb 13, 2017, at 8:22 AM, Julie Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Bingo!  Thank you so much for saying this!
> 
> It is the person with the civil rights.  An ID would ensure that the person has a disability and can legally utilize appropriate means of mitigating the disability.  For some people that's a dog, some a cane and others it's a wheelchair.  Legally these are all the same.
> 
> Requiring ID's for only service dog users is highly discriminatory.  It would be like only requiring driver's licenses for women, because they cause more traffic problems.  It is simply a serious violation of civil rights laws to single out a protected class of people and then require them to have to comply with extra measures to be able to go and do the same things the general public can do.  Requiring a blind person with a dog to show an ID to enter a grocery store is no different than requiring a black person to show ID before going in the store.  It's wrong, very, very wrong.
> 
> Julie
> -----Original Message----- From: Jen via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 1:39 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Jen
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
> 
> I am not a law student but read many law review articles for fun sometimes.
> Yeah.
> 
> Anyway, to tag on to this post...
> 
> Let's say a guide dog ID law was in effect now. Would this law extend to
> cane use? What would make a cane different, license-wise, than a guide dog?
> 
> Jen
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jameyanne Fuller
> via NAGDU
> 
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 1:23 AM
> 
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> 
> Cc: Jameyanne Fuller <jameyanne at gmail.com>
> 
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
> 
> Hello all from snowy Cambridge,
> 
> I haven't posted on here much because law school has eaten my life (Mopsy is
> loving Harvard though), but I have been lurking. I've always been curious
> about a service dog license law, so I'm chiming in with some thoughts.
> 
> The ADA limits the sorts of questions you can ask about a person's
> disability, including why you have a service dog, and that's what a service
> dog license would violate. I may have missed something else more specific
> though. It's been a while since I read the ADA.
> 
> I've always been personally conflicted about a service dog license law. I
> feel like it would discourage fakers, and the number of times I'm told by
> businesspeople people have tried to fake bringing service dogs into places
> and then the dogs have reeked havoc is really upsetting because it means the
> businessperson automatically doesn't trust me or Mopsy.
> 
> Setting aside the issues with the ADA for the moment, I don't think it's the
> sort of law that could be implemented in one state because it would limit
> people's freedom of movement (we don't have to get a license to go on
> vacation), and there's also the issue Daryl raised about being asked to show
> the license multiple times a day, which is really upsetting.
> 
> There may be a way to implement something that would limit fakers and
> preserve our rights at the same time. Unfortunately, I've been doing legal
> research all day on another issue, and my brain is kind of fried, so I can't
> come up with a creative solution at the moment, but I'll continue to think
> about it.
> 
> I do have to say I carry Mopsy's seeing eye ID with me everywhere, and I
> have no problem showing it to someone who asks for proof Mopsy is a service
> dog; I know I don't have to do this, and I've even had people tell me by
> showing Mopsy's IDENTIFY, I'm hurting people with service dogs who don't
> have IDENTIFY's, but it's a whole lot simpler to just show the ID than fight
> back when I have the ID. I can't fight on every issue. I also inform them
> while I have an ID, not all schools give IDENTIFY's and, under the ADA, they
> can't legally ask for an ID in the first place. I recognize it may not
> always be effective to give them the proof they ask for while at the same
> time tell them they can't legally ask for it, but I've found people tend to
> be much more sensitive to this after I have shown them the ID and
> legitimized myself. They're much more willing to talk and learn, so I guess
> my point is, it's complicated. I understand and agree with both the reasons
> for such a law and the reasons against it. I agree without safeguards, a
> service dog license law would be a violation of our rights, but at the same
> time, something has to be done about the fakers.
> 
> Stay warm!
> 
> 
> Jameyanne and Mopsy
> jameyanne at gmail.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary Steeves via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 12:54 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Gary Steeves <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
> 
> Hi Daryl what province is it in
> 
> On February 11, 2017 9:09:40 PM PST, Daryl via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>> I live in Canada, and one of our provinces has enacted such a law. It's
>> honestly been incredibly frustrating. People who live there have told
>> me that just by going about their business with their service dogs,
>> they are asked for identifying documents several times a day. One has
>> even told me that she is reluctant to leave her house with her service
>> dog because she gets asked for paperwork so frequently. They have not
>> addressed the issue of owner trainers, or visitors to the province. For
>> example, if I travel there on a family emergency, I can pre apply for a
>> temporary ID card. This greatly restrict the movement of Canadian
>> citizens, which is against the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If you
>> are getting asked for ID when you buy alcohol or verify your ID when
>> writing checks, it's because everybody gets ask for that information.
>> You personally are not targeted.
>> 
>> On February 11, 2017 10:02:11 PM MST, Nancy VanderBrink via NAGDU
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Dar,
>>> Apologies, I forgot about those groups, didn't intend to.
>>> 
>>> I have to show ID when I go to get alcohol though...  and for things
>>> like writing checks and verifying my identity at the airport...
>>> 
>>> Wouldn't something like this help with 'fakers'?
>>> 
>>> I wonder if there could even be some sort of accreditation process
>> that
>>> you could go through if you owner  trained or had somebody help you
>>> train your dog to a group like IAADP?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 11, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Daryl via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I can't speak for anybody else, but as for myself I have big
>> problems
>>> with such an idea. It makes people with disabilities who use service
>>> dogs targets for anybody who wants to see identifiable information.
>>> Yes, to drive a car you need a license. But you are only requested for
>>> that license if you are driving erratically. Also, if a person chooses
>>> to owner train their dog, or if they're disability makes owner
>> training
>>> the only viable option, they are at a distinct disadvantage.
>>>> 
>>>>> On February 11, 2017 9:46:58 PM MST, Nancy VanderBrink via NAGDU
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hey guys,
>>>>> So I'm going to make you mad at me but I don't
>>> understandsomething...
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you have to get a license to drive why not one for a guide dog.
>>>>> I know that people who were glasses are supposed to have their
>>> picture
>>>>> taken with her glasses on and I guess I wonder why he could not be
>>>>> something like that but for us with our dog?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know figuring out how to come up with some sort of database of
>>>>> accredited schools and then how to figure out how to make sure
>> these
>>>>> places are accredited would be a process but I guess I kind of
>>> wonder
>>>>> if having it on something that already exists and is already
>>> official
>>>>> wouldn't that make it easier?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I mean, if I have to go get a new ID when I move wouldn't it make
>>> sense
>>>>> to just go get a new ID with your picture of you and your partner
>> in
>>> it
>>>>> that way?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm not trying to ignite a fire storm or anything I just don't
>>> really
>>>>> understand why this is such a big deal. I understand the need for
>>>>> privacy but I'm not even really saying that you have to say on
>> there
>>>>> why you have the dog I guess I really just kind of would think that
>>> if
>>>>> they could get accredited schools in a database and then the DMV
>>> could
>>>>> choose the school you went to given on some sort  of letter or
>>>>> something, why is that bad???
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just trying to understand.
>>>>> 
>>>>> vandyvanderbrink at outlook.com
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
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>>>> 
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> a
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